Jane is a Ukrainian Youtuber. This discussion took place after she released a video on Ukrainian Easter food: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUJaCS1NgFc
Українською мовою: Джейн розповідає про культуру харчування
Vic: Okay, cool. Um, yeah, so, I watched your video that you sent me about like the Easter food traditions.
Jane: Mhm.
Vic: So it’s something that people have mentioned a bunch of times that, like, bread is very significant to Ukrainian people culturally.
Jane: Yes.
Vic: Could you tell me a bit about that?
Jane: Um, bread always was significant since the pagan traditions, before the Christianity. And it was incorporated into Christianity and only was enhanced in the villages because of the Holodomor [Голодомор – A tragic event also known as Ukrainian Famine, which was a massive manmade famine in soviet Ukraine in 1932-1933 that killed millions of Ukrainians caused intentionally by soviet government], you know…
Vic: Yeah.
Jane: Because we have a different laws that was issued by the soviets, for example the law about три колоски [three wheat ears, three wheat spikes]. Три колоски, that’s means that, ah, I will translate now, колосок… Переклад [translation]… На англ [to English]… Ah. Так [yes]. Do you know that… wheat… spike? Like, like, um, the green, which is used to bake bread, uh, how it called correctly on, in English?
Vic: Wheat. Пшениця, yeah.
Jane: Ah, wheat.
Vic: Yeah, wheat.
Jane: The… it’s like a pieces that are growing to, in the, like, soil, and after it’s like, uh, sieving, and doing the wheat, like, flour, you know? Like powder.
Vic: Okay.
Jane: So, the soviets union made this artificial famine and took out all these, like, flour from people, and if people are starting to, like, sneak into the soviet houses to get the food back, that was taken, soviets put all the people into the prison. And these, um… this law about three, like, three pieces of flavor, it was issued.
[Law of Spikelets or Law of three Spikelets, of five Spikelets, Seven Eights Law(all unnoficial names) – a decree from soviet union by which a person would be executed or face 10 years in prison for ‘stealing kolkhoz’s property’, even for taking back a few spikelets of wheat that could be taken from the person themselves. It became an instrument of terror by famine and started Holodomor in 1932. Even hiding spikelets of wheat was considered stealing from kolkhoz.]
And if you stole a… from the warehouse, you was put in the prison. And bread is, was significant and important in our diet because, uh, Ukrainian people, they are, were eating everything with the bread, like borsch with bread, soup with bread. And, um, we, um, it also was related to the communion, you know, like bread and wine, like, for the church. And we have also the statement that the bread is the head of everything. Like «Хліб всьому голова» [literal translation]. Yeah. And that is why our grandmothers still have these, like, not the tradition, but habit that you still not leave the crumbs of bread on the table and you should not, like, put it on the floor. Like, it’s prohibited because people, um, people in the villages was considering bread as a separate meal, if you, like, know what I mean. So, um, yeah, and we are baking bread on Easter, like, sweet bread, Easter bread that called «паска», сирна. So yeah.
Vic: What happens if you do leave the crumbs on the table? Or brush them on the floor, like is it bad or…
Jane: Ah… this mean that you disrespect the bread, in the, it’s like, it was a belief in the village, like, you’re disrespecting the bread, and the bread is a separate food for slavs, for Ukrainians, so you shouldn’t do such things. Now, modern generation, they are don’t leave bread or do not drop the bread on the floor, not because it’s sacred but because of respect of the tradition. Yeah.
Vic: Okay. Does that tie in any way to feeding pigeons bread? Like is there anything you need to do?
Jane: No, it’s some, if some, uh… bread can be used to feed animals or birds, it’s okay. So bread shouldn’t be misused. Shouldn’t be thrown in the garbage. Like… just, if you can feed, like, birds with bread, you can use it for this purpose.
Vic: Okay, cool. How about wheat more broadly, like you get things like buckwheat tea?
Jane: Aha…. Buckwheat tea? The tea from the buckwheat wheat?
Vic: Yeah.
Jane: Um, Ukrainians have this but I’m not drinking that, like…
Vic: Do you not enjoy it?
Jane: Eh, I like buckwheat as a meal, but I am not really drinking such tea.
Vic: Is there less cultural significance to buckwheat than normal wheat?
Jane: Uh-huh. Um, normal wheat has more significance than buckwheat.
Vic: Okay. Is there a special significance to eating sunflowers or sunflower oil?
Jane: Ah… Yeah. We have a habit of eating sunflowers and do sunflower oil because sunflower is the, like, cheap, like, alternative just for snack and for doing oils like olive oil, for example or, um, you know, yeah. So when we have no any super, like… after that soviet union collapsed we had no such spread supermarkets in the small cities, for example in my industrial cities first supermarket appeared at the end of the 90s. Ans we actually need to use something for snack, like when you’re, like, walking with the friends, or you’re just drinking beer, and people were drying the bread to create the crisps. And they were using sunflower seeds just to eat it with the, when you’re walking or just, eh, yeah. And, eh, because it was very cheap option for us and because it was widespread on the every cottage house, you know, город. Город is this like the land that adds to the cottage house and where бабушкаs [grandmas] were planting their own veggies. So yeah.
Vic: Yeah. Has that made sunflowers more revered in Ukrainian culture?
Jane: Uh, sunflowers more what?
Vic: Like, do people have more respect for sunflowers like they do for bread?
Jane: Ah, we do have respect for it, because it was, um, but not like… bread is, like, more significant than sunflower, yeah. We believed that sunflower, like, when it grows in your yard, it always look on the sun, towards the suns direction, so yeah. But bread is more important than sunflower.
Vic: Okay. Does salo have extra significance compared to other food?
Jane: Could you please repeat?
Vic: Does… Is salo, like the pig fat, more significant than other foods?
Jane: Ah… yeah. I got your point. Salo is our traditional food because, um, of the village. We were keeping the livestock in the village and, uh, people were keeping pigs, yes, well, like, yeah. And when salo, like, pig meat, like, they were available in each, like, house in the village And people were salting it and using it in winter. It was when we had no, we were having no refrigerator at the time and it was during soviet union in small villages. For example people having no refrigerator and the only meat they can just keep is salted salo, because it can be kept in underground, underground, yes, and it was not rotted and, uh, salo is very, um, have a lot of calories and it’s, like, nutritious and if you put salo on the bread, you can have the quick snack, yes, and it will last for a long time. That is why salo is also important in Ukrainian culture, like cultural food. Yeah. But sometimes, but now, we are, modern generation like eating salo more like a treat or more, not like everyday food, but our grandma, our grandparents, our grand-grandparent were eating salo, like, every day. With horseradish and bread.
Vic: Okay.
Jane: Because we have now supermarkets, refrigerator and we have access to any meat. Mostly.
Vic: Yeah, yeah. Do people who live in the city try and eat these traditional foods to maintain relationship with village life?
Jane: Eh, um, we are eating salo and traditional Ukrainian food more like at keeping tradition and eating it day by day. Most of the holidays like Easter or Green holidays or Christmas, people are putting salo on the table. As a tradition, in a traditional perspective. We are not like consider salo to be, like, our meat for every day, but yeah, Gen Z and Millenials are eating it but like the treat.
Vic: M’kay. In your video you said that Pinterest has become like a religion (Jane laughs) and when you look online, you know, people, people aren’t posting traditional Easter foods so much, they’re going more for ones that look good online on Instagram and Pinterest. Do you think that that’s had an impact on how people eat traditional food or which people make traditional food?
Jane: Of course. It made an impact in every country. Like, if you check the tradition of your, like, land, um, maybe before the global Internet access, people were eating their traditional food like in the inside circle of their family and each family had their own, like, family dishes, like, recipes that they are doing like for every holiday. Yeah.
However when marketing stepped in, they, um, took some recipe and made, um, like, the dishes more fancy, do the photo of them and say “Please, buy this salo, it’s fancy!”, like, you know (laughs). Uh, “If you buy it, it will, no, it will be good for your health and good for your table decoration”. Like, people, of course, they like marketing, they like trend, they like decoration, um, Ukrainian women decorated also their houses and Eastern baskets even before the Internet, in the villages, they just, they just did all this decoration by their hands and some can, some women can do it more fancy or some not. It depended on their financial situation, of their family. And the ability to do it by… hand-made, (laughs) someone can do it, someone no. Yeah.
And when Internet became global, you have an access not only to your neighborhood, like, trend, what are your neighbors doing at this day but to global trends, and it becomes mixed in. So Western people are using rabbits, you know, for Easter, and now rabbits incorporated also our Eastern decoration, but not in traditional way, more like decorational way. So when you are going in Lviv to… I don’t know, some boutique, or some, like, shop, uh, yes, they have like little rabbits, very fancy little rabbits that are selling for huge amount of money. (laughs) People buy it if they have the financial opportunity. Yeah.
And sometimes you’re seeing like foreign influencers that are decorating their tables and you have, you see all this dishes, plates, like, decoration, you also want to buy them. (laughs) Because it’s like, beautiful, it looks beautiful. Yeah. That is why, yeah. Internet influences it, however, Internet also incorporate, like, your opinion, global to us Ukrainian local culture into their product, like items, to maintain the tradition. You see, a lot of Ukrainian brands, brands of vyshyvankas, vyshyvanka looks very fancy but it keeps their original ornament [embroidery]. And sometimes these vyshyvanka or embroidered dress is suitable even for red carpet, because it’s so fancy, you know. But it still keeps the Ukrainian ornament [embroidery]. Yeah.
Vic: Do people now make, do people now concentrate less on, I guess, styles or crafts that are local to their region of Ukraine? Like I’ve seen vyshyvankas have different traditional embroideries depending on which Oblast [Region] are you from. Do people… bother with that less now? Like has Ukrainian culture become a bit more mixed up between the Oblasts?
Jane: Of course. With the globalization it became more, like, general, generalized. However, the local historical communities, they are doing the educational work among the population. “This ornament [embroidery] was used in Crimea” for example, “This ornament was used in Poltava”. And we have a lot of evidences that Donetsk and Luhansk area were also using their own Ukrainian local ornaments, but it was destroyed by the soviets and russian empire and russification and propaganda and everything. But Donetsk did have a lot of good ornaments on vyshyvanka, their local ones.
And historics, they are propaganding [spreading propaganda] it, like, you know, it’s bad propaganda or good propaganda, this is good propaganda. So they are propaganding it online and people sometimes incorporate these ornaments into their daily clothing because they want to support, like, this region and tradition of this region that were almost destroyed. So, of course, it’s… every community has their own one, like, ornaments, and in case you want to incorporate some ornaments from Kharkiv, for example, region, you can do so. It’s not prohibited and it’s good that people are using it because it keeps, like, tradition alive, because russians were trying to destroy it so long, and in some region they have succeed more and in some region they have succeed less, so, yeah. People are, you know, reviving the culture now, but doing it in more fashionable way. If you know what I mean.
Vic: So has that been a drive for people to reconnect with their cultural roots since the full-scale invasion?
Jane: Yes, of course! Of course. Local brands are actively using local, uh, ornaments to, uh, you know, create items like, items like cups and plates or dresses or scarves or vyshyvankas. But they are doing it, like, more in the global way. For example, they’re using the design are somewhe… they are seeing designs somewhere from abroad, taking it and put the ornaments on this design. And it looks appropriate not only to wear in the church, only Easter, but also appropriate to wear it everyday. So people can be like connected with the, our traditional clothing not only on special occasion but they are incorporating it into daily, uh, like daily outfits so people can just wear it and this is will be a style and like, silent witness of existing of Ukrainian culture, that it’s still alive and people are using it.
And also if you’re like buying the skirts with the ornaments, but it’s not like traditional-traditional skirts, that’s like, more like skirts that’s fashionable, but has an ornament and you wore it abroad, people see it and they’re “Wow! This skirt is good! So let’s check if we can buy the same one”. This is like, supporting not only the tradition but also local brands and businesses and Ukrainian economy in this hard time, with the full-scale invasion it’s a big revival of national, like, identity incorporated to the fashionable things. If you know what I mean.
Vic: How do you feel about non-Ukrainian people wearing traditional Ukrainian clothes?
Jane: Eh, you mean I support it or not support it?
Vic: Yeah. Do you think people should be, non-Ukrainian people, like, European people… wear it?
Jane: Ah! You know, this is a good question because sometimes people are… are like, on West, they are upset about cultural appropriation, you know. However here, in Ukraine, in my humble opinion, we should encourage such stuff that, for example, UK people will buy vyshyvanka, put a vyshyvanka [on] and wear it outside of the house. So it’s good because it gives our culture a second breath.
And… you know, Ukrainians are starting to be more visible not as the part of the russia. Before this… Orange Revolution, before the Revolution of Dignity [Революція гідності, also known as the Євромайдан, Майдан – Maidan Revolution, took place in Ukraine in February 2014 at the end of the Euromaidan protests], some people abroad, they were considering us as part of the russia, like, they only knew “russian culture” [mostly things of culture from the countries and nations that russia was and is oppressing, including but not limited to Ukraine, belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, et cetera], russian ballet, russian opera everything. So. Such stuff like spreading of this micro-culture abroad, it’s like good for give us more visibility. And give Ukrainian craft more, like, you know, eh, more creative, so people see that Ukrainians, they can create something so beautiful that needs to be shown everywhere, in every piece of the Earth. If you know what I mean.
Vic: It’s a good showcase of Ukrainian talent.
Jane: Yeah, of course, of course! Yeah. And there is a lot of, you know, second wave immigrants and second line of the immigrants, in Canada, like, for example, they have a Ukrainian diaspora, or in America they have, like a Ukrainian diaspora, and also actively propaganding this Ukrainian culture for everyone to see.
Vic: Is it Dnipro you’re from originally?
Jane: Dnipro region.
Vic: When you’ve come to Lviv, do you celebrate, like, Dnipro, I guess, cultural things? Or do you celebrate more Lviv-style things?
Jane: Eh, I’m speaking surzhyk [суржик – a special mix of Ukrainian and russian languages, occurring primarily in East and South regions of Ukraine], this is already a celebration of Dnipro original themes, because in Dnipro we have our own Ukrainian dialect, like Ukrainian surzhyk. And here we are having their own dialect, it’s like surzhyk from Poland language mixed with Ukrainian language, like Galicia [Halychyna in Polish spelling – West regions of Ukraine, including parts of Lviv region, Ternopil region and Ivano-Frankivsk region] dialect. And I’m doing traditional stuff on holidays that used to be done, used to done by my grandmother when I was a kid. So yes, we can say so that I brought some Dnipro region culture here, and I also, I appropriate some culture from Galicia region. It’s now mix of the culture. I’m speaking not only now surzhyk of Dnipro region but also surzhyk from Galicia region, and this is like crazy mix. (laughs)
Vic: So it’s… are they quite different like surzhyk from Dnipro and from…
Jane: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. For example, in our region, Dnipro region, we were saying different, um, different words, for example when you’re surprised, you can say “Тю!” [untranslatable], but here they’re saying, Galicia people, they are saying “Йо!”, or… “Йой, йой”, like, you know… this is different words but their meaning.
Vic: M’kay.
Jane: Or… here they are saying, the word “Excuse me”. They are saying “Прошу”, and in Dnipro region we were saying “Перепрошую” or we are saying “Повторіть будь ласка”. This is how… but here, they are just saying “Прошу”. This is some similar to Po… Polish words.
Vic: Okay.
Jane: I hope it’s understandable. (laughs)
Vic: Yeah, yeah. You mentioned that do some of the celebrations that your grandma did, are there any lesser known ones that you do that maybe aren’t well known in Lviv?
(cut out)
Vic: So we were talking about celebrations that you learnt from your grandma that maybe aren’t so… aren’t as well known in Lviv.
Jane: Mhm. Ehm. You know, celebration in Dnipro region and Lviv region are slightly different, it’s different ways and different approach to the same holidays. So, for example, Christmas. Dnipro region was under the Orthodox influence and influence of the Orthodox church for a long time, so they even had a different calendar, uh, for celebrating Easter, because here, it, eh, you’re catholic, from Latin catholic tradition, they still have a lot of catholic here, in Galicia region, they celebrate it according to the Western calendar. For example, now Orthodox church is celebrating Easter on 12th of April. But Latin catholic church here is celebrating it on 6th of April.
And sometimes dishes that we are, like, doing, like doing and baking for the Easter, could be slightly different from the region. For example, here we, they are doing paskas [паска – sweet bread made especially for the Easter, often with raisins and sweet glaze on top; may be similar to Italian panetone], in Dnipro region we also were doing paskas, maybe in some different way. Here, there is more popular сирна паска [paska made from farmer’s cheese]. In Dnipro region it was paska with the dough, like that you need to pre-cook, and this dough need to stay a little bit for a half of a day to prepare. So, like, basically the same things, but different approach. Yes.
And, um, the ornaments on the eggs could be also slightly different. In Dnirpo region we put our local ornaments, if they could, if our craft of doing it allowed us to do it. So, because my grandmother could do it, but my hands, they are… (laughs) not very capable enough to create the beautiful ornament. So, yeah. Here in Lviv region they are doing their local also ornaments.
Uh, on Easter my grandma were doing the chilled meat jelly, like kholodets. Here, the kholodets is not so widespread. They are doing more pastries that are called pampukhy [a small savory or sweet yeast-raised bun or doughnut, also often called pampushky]. Pampukhy, yeah. So both regions put salo on the table. Horseradish, salt, wine, like… it depends on what congregation you relate to. If you’re Orthodox, you can have your own traditions, if you’re a Greek Catholic, you can have some differences.
For example, Greek Catholic service are starting from 7 o’clock and after 9, after 11, after 1 pm, 3 and all day long. In the Orthodox tradition in Dnipro region service was at 6 am (laughs). And after 6 am they have no so widespread, like, you know, services that were lasted for all the day. So that is why it wasn’t so accessible for young people, because young people can not get up early. It… our grandmother, generation X, they were most suitable for early wake-ups. And for example in Orthodox church when it’s Easter you need go to the church with a covered head. You know, you have to cover your head. Here, Greek Catholics and Catholics are not covering their head at all.
In Orthodox church, uh, everyone are standing during the cere… during the preaching time. Greek Catholic allows the congregation to sit. Catholics are sitting all the time but sometimes they are standing, then they, their knees and everything. However, the… tradition of standing alone all the service have been in Dnipro, because Dnipro was under the Orthodox tradition, mostly. Of course, there were minorities of Protestants, Mainline Protestants, yeah, but I mean the majority of the population.
Vic: So a lot of it’s being driven by religious differences?
Jane: Um, we all here have Christianity. All Ukraine is Christian state. However, we have different denominations. It depends, and depends on what denomination you are. If you’re Orthodox, you have a difference from the Catholic ones. If you’re Protestant, you have a difference from Catholics and Orthodox, because Protestants, they are sitting and they have no icons, that, you know… Probably, UK is very o… no, Protestant state. You have your own church, actually.
Vic: Uh, we’ve got Church of England, like we made our own one up.
Jane: Yeah, Henry the 6th did it. But he was your king.
Vic: Yeah, Henry the 8th made it up.
Jane: Ah, sorry, the 8th. I’m sorry.
Vic: Yeah. In the video, you talked about making pysanky [traditional Slavic egg decoration, usually by painting] at home, and you talked about how Instagram and Pinterest makes people want to make more complicated designs. For your ones, you made your own dye from boiling onion skins? Is that the more traditional way to do it?
Jane: It was traditional in the villages where we have no… when we have no supermarkets and, uh, a lot of material and items to help us out to make the stuff, because… at 90s, for example, we, um, have no much money to buy, um, for example professional dye for these eggs, and my mom, for example, was using the, um, dressings from the onions, onions (laughs), skins, you know, to dye. And we also were using the beetroot to dye our eggs at that time.
However, in, at 90s, if you had money, some people had money at that period, they could afford to go to some shop and to buy it. However just simple people were not having such opportunity and uh, for now, uh, you can go to the supermarket or you can click online and you will have not only dye but also already prepared eggs, so… with the ornament and with the stuff. And regarding the ornament, in the villages people were keeping craft and tradition and almost every person could do the ornament by themselves, by their own hand. But when it come industrialization in soviet union, and it was 70s, 80s, 90s, people tend to simplify things and not every person could do this ornament at home, that is why people started to just dye, like, their eggs and everything. And it was, like, the… not a tra… not a tradition, it was like a simplification, uh, fixed strictly in our lives.
However, with the Internet, when you can just click online and see “what eggs should I do on Paskha? [Easter]”, put, type in the Google, and Google will show you beautiful decorated eggs with the ornament, with the additional decoration and everything and you are looking at this an you’re thinking that “Oh, I want to do the same” or “I want my eggs look the same, but I can’t do it with my hands” (laughs). Yeah. “I want to purchase it”. And they’re purchasing it.
Just, without the Internet you have no such opportunity to purchase everything you want, so people relied on themselves, on their own craft and abilities to do this, like… when supermarkets came, supermarkets appeared widely on the, on Ukrainian territories, it was early 2000s, when like Billa supermarket, Rainford supermarket, they were selling dye, they were selling additional, like, decoration for the eggs, that you can fix on egg and it will be nice. They were selling the um, ornaments that can be… it can be fixed to the egg like a duct tape, you know?
Vic: Yeah.
Jane: So, people started to buy these ones, yeah. It was, um, yeah. We can say that Internet influence, influenced on us in, in our approach to decorate things for Easter, but not because the Internet alone. Internet just… took out the old tradition and place it online, and people started to see how it could look. How it could be decorated.
For example, in my family we have no Internet. My family dyed all this, like, eggs in the dye that they bought in the supermarket, and that’s all. However, uh, if someone outside of my family came to us and said “Look, I know another way. For example, in this shop I’ve seen such decoration and we can put this decoration on the eggs”. Then, we have a new knowledge and we can take this advice, go to this shop and buy the decoration for the eggs. But with Internet it became more easy to find the ways how to diverse your eggs, if you know what I mean. Internet haven’t invented anything. They just found the old way of decorating the eggs and incorporate it in real life.
Because, as I already said, uh, when it was, um, 19th century, beginning of 20th century, all women in the villages were told and trained to, to put ornaments, because women, most of the women were stay-at-home wives, and they were helping the, like, father of the family or husband to take care about household and everything, so. But when jobs became available because of the plants, you know, industrialization, you have no time to learn this craft. You need to learn like math, physics to be able to work, you know? And, yeah. Internet just took this old tradition, put it online available and accessible for everyone, marketing figured out how to mass produce it and give even the person like me opportunity to buy something beautiful and put on their egg to be able to have a beautiful egg on Easter even if I cannot do it myself, you know.
Vic: Do you think people are more or less likely to try decorating their own pysanky now?
Jane: Eh, if you have a lot of time, opportunities, and desire, you can do, you can check the manuals on the Internet how to decorate it yourself and you can do it at home. However, if you have a full-time job, have kids, for example, and your time is very, like, um, full of, like, scheduled things and you have no such opportunity to learn from Internet after, buying paints, do it yourself, you can just go to the supermarket and buy what brands are offering.
If you have a lot of money, you can go to the branded shop like, um, where they selling like rushnyky [towels, in this case hand-crafted, often embroidered], rushnyky, very beautiful ones, selling decoration. You can buy everything, bring it at home and decorate it yourself like you wishing it.
So, um, I think, um, why I decorated it myself on the video, because I wanted to bring you the tradition from my childhood when we used onions to, um, like, paint out eggs, because onions is a natural painter, it’s not a chemical, you know, and second, I just wanted to feel the joy, (laughs) you know, the joy of my childhood, like, I help my mom. And.. Yeah. I did it just for fun. However, if I buy it online or if I buy the already decorated, like, duct tapes on my eggs, no one would judge me, I, I guess. (laughs) So it’s up to you now. Internet make it more complicated but more easier, if you got what I mean, you know, if it makes sense, so, yeah.
Vic: Yeah. In your one, you had like a leaf pattern to it. Do you, like, tape the leaf to the egg and then boil it?
Jane: Yes. I, erm, I went outside, took a leaf, wash it, after put on the egg and after put my egg to the… капронові колготки… I don’t know how it will be in English, eh… ко… ко… зараз, я [one moment, I]… translator… (types) nylon tights.
Vic: Ahh…
Jane: So I have the nylon tights and I’m use it like a fixator to this leaf..
Vic: Okay.
Jane: And put into my dyer.
Vic: Right, I haven’t thought of that.
Jane: (laughs) Yeah.
Vic: Cool. Um, with, um, more generally about food culture in Ukraine, I guess for, for these celebrations, does it matter where the food comes from? Like is it better if the food you produced yourself, does it matter if it comes from a supermarket?
Jane: For the keeping tradition, um, it doesn’t matter if you buy it or if you do it yourself. Um, some Ukrainians are still doing it, um, themselves, because they want to know the way how to do it in case something happens and all supermarkets will disappear. It could be, you know (laughs).
Some people, um, they really enjoy the process of doing paskas, you know, baking the bread, doing the salads and everything. However, if you’re super busy, you can go to the supermarket and buy it, but what is… it has pros, but I also see the cons in this, because, uh, for example, brand can do perfect Easter bread. Paska. Decorate it in the perfect way, in the perfect, like, ornament, sometimes they are using napkins with the or… like, ornaments to just give paska more decoration, like, you know, and present it in more presentable style. So they can do perfect decoration on paska, the taste of this paska will be perfect, but they will put the price that’s not reasonable for this, like, item.
In, in ho… at home, you can do it much cheaper, but they are putting, like, for example 2000 of hryvnia [about 45 USD or 34 GBP] the price for this item, and buying it only for the sake on fanciness, it’s not reasonable for me. It’s only my humble opinion! Uh, of course each craft and each work should be paid, but if you are adding to the price only because of the brand or because of the fanciness or because of “it looks very presentable”, um… in aspect of Easter celebration, I think it’s not a reasonable, because what is reasonable is put Jesus in the focus of all of this, like, celebration.
You can do perfect paskas, perfect eggs, but not the eggs should be the main goal of the, like, season. And we can also, also te… no, also, like, transfer it to UK, just to make it more understandable for you. For example, you have a Christmas in UK, and Christmas is the birth of Christ, the savior, who come to save all the people. Yeah. And everyone are waiting for the Christmas to celebrate it. And marketing sometimes is misusing this holiday and [people are] buying a lot of items that are not reasonable at this day, and making people even using their credit card and be in the debt just for the sake of the fashion, I think.
For, for example, at this year, the candles for Christmas are, for example, are round. This is the fashion. And next season it should be rectangular, and it is defined by the trend and by the marketing, and if person is buying, like, different decoration just for the sake of trends, I think it’s bad and it’s wrong. And, um, marketing only gives us the, you know, mass waste and mass overconsumption and everything and also it’s… (laughs) empties our wallet. So, if you have already rectangular candles that you can use the second time and they are almost new, it’s no need to buy round ones. Does this make sense? For you.
Vic: Yeah. It’s not about the things you buy for the celebration, it’s about… celebrative…
Jane: Yeah. Well, for example, they are saying “Look at this vyshyvanka, it’s perfect, on the Easter party you will look like the most beautiful woman in this room, buy this vyshyvanka, and you will, like, be amazing”, you know (laughs). And this vyshyvanka cost like 10 thousand of hryvnia [about 227 USD or 168 GBP]. And Easter, it’s not a fashion week in the church. It’s okay to, like, use traditional clothing to go to the church and be in vyshyvanka or use embroidery incorporated in your daily clothing. Uh, however, everything should be reasonable. Not your outlook is the main feature of the holiday.
Vic: Yeah. Okay. Um, so, for international volunteers, they sometimes have, I guess, cultural clashes with Ukrainian people. Like in England and I think America it’s quite common to buy a bunch of pizzas if you’re going to an event, but I’ve noticed that in Ukraine, volunteers spots, people prefer it if you bring, like, meat and cheese and bread rather than just bring a stack of pizza. Is that, like, should people avoid bringing a stack of pizza to places? Is it actually negative, or just different?
Jane: Ah, uh-huh… the approach for food is different in Ukraine, in Slavic culture and in the Western culture. If you wanted to bring pizza, you are welcome to bring pizza. Uh, it should be done from your heart. No one will be offended if bring pizza (laughs). On the party or on the Easter table or something like this. Here, we are bringing the food we most like. Fast food culture is popular here, but not the main line popular, if you know what I’m saying, you know.
Um, buy McDonalds is possible, but it’s better to buy and bring more nutritious, delicious and healthier food. Ukrainians are, like, tending to more healthier food to consume every day, even, because our generation X and Millennials, they were taught by our grannies that, um, every day you should have some soup on your lunch, like. So, we are still doing soups and borsch, like, warm food, not only just heating up the pizza in the, like, microwave oven. Because it’s good for our health. Why Ukrainians are bringing ham and, like, vegetables, you know, all this stuff, because it’s… it’s cultural stuff but also healthier alternative to pizza. However, if you bring pizza, no one will be offended. Just every food that you bring and food on the table is good, and if it was done from your, um… it was done genuine and from your heart, it will be appreciated.
Vic: Okay. And for volunteers working in kitchens around Ukraine, is the… um, someone told me, they heard that you shouldn’t wear outdoor clothes when you’re working in a kitchen. Is that a hygiene thing or is that a cultural thing, like?
Jane: No, it’s hygiene thing.
Vic: Okay.
Jane: It’s like with the slippers. Some cul… some people from abroad, they are not, like, uh, change their, like, shoes when they are at home. Here, in Ukraine, it’s mandatory cultural thing that you need to wear slippers at home because they are clean. Uh, it’s not like, tradition of the nation, it’s approach to the… health.
Vic: Right, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I… I think it makes sense. I wish people did it in England more. (laughs)
Jane: Yes, because when you’re going outside, you can step into the poop, you know, into the any, like, bacterias and you are just bringing it home and after you have a child, child is on the floor, and putting their hand into these microbes and… you know.
Vic: Is there anything that people who are curious about Ukrainian culture or who are considering coming to Ukraine should volu… to volunteer, should know about Ukrainian culture before they come?
Jane: Ah… how to say. In, it’s a… the approach to it, it’s different here. Uh, for example if you ask me, I would say that every person is welcome for volunteering because they are helping Ukraine, yeah. And if this person isn’t familiar with Ukrainian culture, it doesn’t matter. If you came for the sake of help and for the sake of solidarity, you are welcome. However some things that not from cultural way, are from the… like… you need to be decent person, just decent person. If you will come to the volunteer center and you will throw the trash on the floor, for example, or you will come drunk just because it’s the part of your culture at home, it would be not appropriate even in UK, if you know what I mean. So you need to treat people as you want them to treat you, for example.
However, if you do not know the exact Ukrainian culture, but willing to come to Ukraine, you do not need to do, like, separate study to do so, you’re welcome anyways. Uh, we will be glad to tell you about our cultural stuff if you ask, for example. But if you have no time and if you have no opportunity to learn it beforehand you just can come. But if you want to wear vyshyvanka here as a foreigner, I will only applaud to you, you know? I, I’m not, um, extremely protective and mad at this cultural appropriation stuff. You can wear my traditional clothing everywhere you want because it gives more visibility, uh, to Ukrainian culture, and it represents Ukrainian heritage abroad and this is good.
Vic: Okay, cool. Yeah, it was very interesting. Thank you for speaking with me.
Jane: I hope this was helpful, sorry, pardon my English. (laughs)
Vic: (laughs) It’s okay.
Jane: It’s my third language. I know I’m doing a lot of grammar mistakes when I speak, like, very fast, but my goal was to just contain all my thoughts into… (laughs) one call, so, uh. I would like to say that, that the only thing that foreigners shouldn’t do here in Ukraine is the… do the sensitive stuff for Ukrainians.
For example, when you come here and, um, trying to bitch about, you know, russian language or something, it’s very sensitive question to Ukrainians now and you shouldn’t do so. For example, you’re not going to US and… like, make a loud discussion about like slavery and something about that, because it’s, like, sensitive stuff. The sensitive stuff can be in any country. For example, in UK, um, I know that people in Scotland, like it’s, it’s one country but it’s different area for culture. I know like, Ireland, Scotland, they have their own traditions and customs and tell them leave it, abandon it and incorporate themselves right into the London culture, for example, it’s not, like, it’s not, it’s inappropriate I think. Because it’s sensitive, like, topic and stuff, and people should, eh, you know, should… think about themselves.
For example to tell Eastern person here “Why are you still speaking russian at home with your relatives?”, it’s also not very good to ask. Uh, you know… it’s also depends. If it’s just your curiosity, you can give some background why you’re asking this and after [explaining] ask. But right away, it’s… a little bit sensitive topic even inside of Ukraine. If you know what I mean. And for example to ask Catholic person, gen X, about his attitude to LGBT… (both laugh) it’s also like sensitive topic for them. You can ask so from gen Z or Millennials, they are more, like… modern people (laughs). Yeah. I’m not saying that gen X are bad, they are just very conservative.
Vic: Okay.
Jane: If you know what I mean.
Vic: Yeah. Alright, cool! Thank you for your time!
Jane: Thank you also for your time, thank you for doing the research to represent our country.
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