Note: This interview took place via a call with very bad signal.
Vic: Can you please tell me your name?
Ivanna: Uh, I am Ivanna.
Vic: Cool. And, um… Can you think of any examples of, um, contemp… of, modern heroes that have emerged since the start of the full-scale invasion?
Ivanna: Um, yes. Um… I remember the… Kyiv Ghost?
Vic: Yeah. Can you tell me anything about him?
Ivanna: And, uh, some… uh, what?
Vic: Can you tell me what you know about the Ghost of Kyiv?
Ivanna: Um, he was, uh, it’s a pilot, he was very good at, uh… um, at knocking down enemies’ planes.
Vic: Okay. And did you feel any personal connection to his story?
Ivanna: Um, I mean, yes? Uh, but not much, I mean, I’m not a pilot and I’m not a soldier. Uh, I do feel the connection to him ‘cause he protected us Ukrainians during this war and… um, I’m very proud of him. (laughs) I don’t think I can say that as a girl who did not fight this war that I’m proud of him, but I am.
Vic: Yeah. Um, did, did you ever buy any… sorry. Can you hear me okay? I think it disconnected.
Ivanna: Yes, yes.
Vic: Okay. Did you ever buy any merchandise with pictures of the Ghost of Kyiv?
Ivanna: No I didn’t, but I think in the post, um… in UkrPost [UkrPoshta, Ukrainian post service] I had a mark with the, I bought a mark with him.
Vic: Oh, like the, for sending letters?
Ivanna: Yes, yes, yes.
Vic: Ah, okay. Did you buy ones that had any other characters on them?
Ivanna: No, I didn’t. I don’t usually, uh, buy it, just the picture was really pretty. (laughs)
Vic: Okay, cool. Um, can you think of any other characters that you might have heard about?
Ivanna: I mean, some soldiers, famous like Da Vinci or
Vic: Can you tell me about them?
Ivanna: I don’t know a lot about their story, but I know they were very brave soldiers, they sacrificed a lot, their lives…
Vic: Was that recent or earlier in the full-scale invasion?
Ivanna: It was in the full-scale invasion, more recent one.
Vic: Okay. Do you know what either of them did?
Ivanna: Umm… Yeah? I think it was, um… wait, I can’t remember the word, he was a commander, Ukrainian, um…
Vic: Okay.
Ivanna: I don’t wanna spread misinformation because I don’t know a lot about it, but Da Vinci was a commander I think.
Vic: Okay. So he was a commander…
Ivanna: Of the army. A really good one.
Vic: …he was a commander of an important unit?
Ivanna: Yes, yes.
Vic: Okay.
Ivanna: I’m sure I know more, but I can’t remember now, and I did not prepare well for this interview… (laughs)
Vic: I’s okay, it’s okay.
Ivanna: Um, yeah.
Vic: Do you know about Pes Patron?
Ivanna: (laughs) Of course!
Vic: Can you tell me about Pes Patron, please?
Ivanna: Umm, yes. He’s a dog. He’s like a soldier, but in a dog form. (laughs) Wait, wait, he’s not a soldier, he’s… um, they’re clearing mines, I think?
Vic: Yeah.
Ivanna: Um… Зараз [one moment]… Ой, wait… Yeah, they mine… they’re doing mine clearings, I think.
Vic: Yeah. And where do you see Pes Patron?
Ivanna: Um, I… this dog was very popular a few years…
(disconnection)
Ivanna: In… on a postmarks, uh, on ads, um, animators for the kids, you know, was wearing the Pes Patron suit.
Vic: Did you ever listen to any Pes Patron music?
Ivanna: Oh, yes. There was a song, popular too. I heard it a lot.
Vic: Did any other characters get music as well?
Ivanna: Umm… maybe there was a song about… gooses? But I’m not sure.
Vic: Like the battle geese?
Ivanna: Yes, yes, there was a goose that, uh, he took the, knocked down the… drone.
Vic: It knocked down a drone?
Ivanna: Uh, also… Yes.
Vic: How did the goose do that?
Ivanna: I don’t know, it was flying. And stumbled, uh, on the drone, and, and knocked down. (laughs)
Vic: (laughs) Okay. Um, do you remember roughly when that was? Or when you heard about it?
Ivanna: It was, uh… either in 2022 or 2023, a lot of the stories happened during the first two years of the full-scale invasion.
Vic: So are these stories less popular now compared to then, do you think?
Ivanna: Uh, I think because they, uh, more common now. Uh, in 2022, when… for example the granny knocked down the drone with uh, uh, with a bottle of wait…
Vic: Yeah, pickles. Pickles.
Ivanna: I’m using a like, translator… (laughs) Uh, yes, with a… can? With, uh, cucumbers that were, pickles, yes. Or when the goose knocked down the drone or any, or any other stories like that. Now regular people, uh, can do that much more, I mean not even soldiers who do that but citizens. When flies to, ну [well]… near them… wait, wait, I’m using translator… (laughs)
Vic: It’s okay.
Ivanna: Electric fiber. Yay. Um, so that regular citizens can, can do that. Uh… Take down the drone. These stories are common now, so I…
Vic: So there’s a lot of stories of civilians…
Ivanna: God, I’m sorry for my English. (laughs)
Vic: Nah, you’re, your English…
Ivanna: I did not have any practice.
Vic: Your English is a lot better than my Ukrainian, so. But, civilians attacking drones themselves?
Ivanna: Uh, yes. If they [drones] fly near them, they can do a very specific thing with the electric fiber.
Vic: Like, cut the fiber the drone’s using?
Ivanna: I think it’s called like that. Yes, yes, yes.
Vic: And where are people learning that that’s something that they can do? Like… is it on social media?
Ivanna: Uh, from, I mean, uh… soldiers told them. I heard many stories from my relatives. Teached… taught children or, uh, other people that are not soldiers that don’t have an education in this field how to do that, and they can do it now. If they’re in danger, if the drone is flying towards them.
Vic: Oh, so if the drone’s flying towards them, not just if they see the drone fly past?
Ivanna: Uh, no no no. They can do that if the drone flies past. For example one story I heard in recent times, there was a boy, young boy, in Chernihiv I think it happened. But I’m not sure. Um, he was playing around with his younger siblings outside, and the drone was flying towards them, towards the, towards his siblings. The boy was… I think, 9 or 10? Uh, something like that, or maybe 11. He was very young. And the drone was flying towards his siblings and he ran up, uh… to this drone and he broke this fiber and took down this drone.
Vic: Did it… I guess it’s dangerous to do, because they can still explode afterwards?
Ivanna: When the drone will collide with you is also dangerous.
Vic: Yeah, yeah. He, he sounds…
Ivanna: If you don’t have any other options, you can do that.
Vic: Yeah. He sounds very brave.
Ivanna: Yes, it was very brave.
Vic: So did the story of him end up, like… getting talked about a lot?
Ivanna: Yes, I heard it on TikTok, it was on the news.
Vic: And you, do you think it’s motivated people?
Ivanna: Uh, yes. I think it did. Of course, it did, a boy, 9 years old… uh, I think, boy took down a drone to protect his siblings, younger siblings, it was very brave and it inspired people. Maybe who was in a bad mood, uh, about this war and everything. Believed that we still have a chance.
Vic: With this boy, do people just talk about what happened or do people create art or memes or music at all?
Ivanna: Uh, no. It was very, mmm… it’s not a ‘Pes Patron or a grandma knocked down a drone with a pickle can’, uh… kind of level of the story. I think this story, um… it’s not the one story. I think it happened a few other times in other regions. Um… or on East [of Ukraine], it happens more, it just… maybe they called the news because this family wanted to share this story. Uh, but it wasn’t talked about a lot. It was just one video and some comments about it, about the boy. But it was pretty good, that video. But there was not songs about it. Like, you can’t create a happy song about this situation, situation.
Vic: Yeah, because it’s… yeah, a sad situation that he had to do that.
Ivanna: Yes. Yes.
Vic: Do, do you hear stories of, um, russian soldiers, like, I guess, just being idiots? (laughs) Like, somebody told me a story about, um, in occupied territory the russians had a, they damaged part of the wires that the internet was transmitted through, and someone told me they saw a soldier trying to bundle up the wires that the interned was transmitted through, so he could send it home so that his family could have the internet back home. Like, do you ever hear stories like that?
Ivanna: Uh, yes. I remembered one in Bucha when russians was, uh, firing at the memorial of the tank, not a real one. And they were doing it for pretty long time.
Vic: Oh, so like, a historical monument rather than a real tank?
Ivanna: Yes, yes, yes.
Vic: Okay. Do people talk about stories like that much still, or are they more, again, more from the start of the full-scale invasion?
Ivanna: Uh, yes, they were more popular and relevant at the start of the invasion, because the mood was… uh, not good, uh, overall, and people needed these stories to… feel happier and to see that russians are dumb and… (laughs) uh, yeah, it… bettering the mood.
Vic: Is the mood better now?
Ivanna: Yes, yes, Uh… What, is the mood better now?
Vic: Yeah.
Ivanna: It depends on the region. I mean, in our region, in my hometown, it is better now than at the start of the full-scale invasion. Our city was… targeted, uh, much more than now with missiles and everything. Now just some drones can fly by, um… under, um… not under, over us, so… But at the same time, a lot more people dies from my time, and, uh, a lot of, uh, people, families of these people who died, of the soldiers, um… are depressed or, not depressed, just have bad mood compared to when they were alive at the start of the full-scale invasion, so it’s just… more separate people, separate families, but it, uh, creates, but it combines in the town and creates this… that mood for people. Did I explain it right? Did you understand?
Vic: Yeah, yeah, I understand. Which Oblast [region] are you from?
Ivanna: Uh, I am from Zhytomyrska Oblast. [Zhytomyr region]
Vic: Okay. Do you think that people who have lost a family member, that they like the stories like the Pes Patron and the Ghost of Kyiv more or maybe less than other people?
Ivanna: Um, I think they like it less just because they like everything less when they has a relative that is down. And… I mean, maybe they think that people don’t take war seriously when they make the songs like Pes Patron or everything or tell funny stories. Because they have a dead relative and they’re very serious about this.
Vic: What about people that have relatives that are serving in the military who haven’t died? Do you think they like these characters more or less than other people?
Ivanna: Uh, this is, this question is pretty much the same as the previous one. I think they like it… um, no, I actually don’t know. I would say they like it less because they like everything less because they are more sad because of it, but maybe some people like it more because they just have different attitude from other people, they have hope, they are happy that these stories are created to… make kids happier? Who also struggle.
Vic: So are these stories most important for children?
Ivanna: Um, not always but I think yes, it… Pes Patron is very childish song and children who are at war, uh, will… have, no, need to, children need to have some memories, to some, have some happy memories, uh, about this period of time.
Vic: Okay.
Ivanna: And this song, these happy songs really help with that.
Vic: So do people play the Pes Patron song much nowadays or was mainly it from 22-23, at the start at the full-scale invasion?
Ivanna: Uh, they don’t, I almost, uh… I, I did not hear this song for a very long time. Just because it’s less popul, popular now, it happens to every song, not just Pes Patron or war, war-related songs. So it’s normal that it’s less popular now, it just… it served its purpose.
Vic: Does the news or the military talk about Pes Patron so much now? Does Pes Patron still appear on the news or does the military talk about what Pes Patron has been doing recently still, or do they not talk about him so much either now?
Ivanna: No, I’d say that they don’t talk about him now. Maybe last time I saw him was a month ago, I think on TikTok. Uh, the animators for the kids was wearing the Brawl Stars, the game costumes, and there was a Pes Patron I think. The Pes Patron costume was a leftover one, I think. (laughs)
Vic: So reusing an old costume? Um, can you think of any other characters or stories?
Ivanna: Umm, characters, I don’t think there can be someone compared to, someone compared to Pes Patron. Um… I dunno, I think I can’t.
Vic: That’s okay. I mean, that’s all the questions that I had. Do you have any general comments or anything you’d like to say at all?
Ivanna: Uh, this comment, it has to motivate people or something, or just talk about my experience?
Vic: Um, anything.
Ivanna: I’d like to say something, I just don’t know what.
Vic: Anything you’d like to talk about. So some people have said, yeah, because it’s going to be British people reading this, they reminded British people “Don’t forget about us”, un, “The war is still going”. Some people have told me about their personal experiences with the start of the full-scale invasion. Um, people have, yeah, told me all sort of things that they’re interested in having British people read.
Ivanna: Um, I’d like to say that… ну [well]… to British people, that the war is still going, like, ну, in my region it’s calmer now, but it can drastically change at anytime, because my, uh, town [is] situated at the border [with belarus]. So the soldiers can go from my city to defend us any time, any day, um… and we’re really scared about it, and we hope that… that the war will end, Ukraine will return its territories and, yeah, please don’t forget, the war is still going. Please read the news more, learn about Ukrainian… I don’t know, writers, artists, different kind of artists more so you can feel that Ukraine, just read some news about war so you can know people better. You don’t have to be friends with a Ukrainian to know Ukrainian people better, so please do that and donate to Ukraine. Yeah.
Vic: Okay, great. Well, thank you very much for speaking with me.
Ivanna: Yeah, thank you for listening.
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