Ana on wartime culture

Part 1: Ana on wartime culture
Part 2: Ana on superstitions
Part 3: Ana on stamps

Ana: Well, again, before, like when it started in 2022, I guess we get more stories like the Ghost of Kyiv or Chornobaivka, if you heard about that. Like it was a village in Kherson which was- the Russian troops, they wanted to capture it, but they couldn’t for several times. And that’s like, I don’t know it, became kind of, let’s say, village… it’s kind of a myth story that no one can capture that village. So, yeah, and actually it didn’t happen. It’s like more than nine or ten times they tried and our Ukrainian forces just threw them back. People were watching it like mini serial, <laughs> like episodes after episodes and they were waiting for another one, and everyone was talking about that.

Yeah most of the stories comes from like, for people to not, you know, dive into the stress and everything what is happening around. I guess Ukrainians are the nation that are making the best memes ever <laughs> from out of nothing. Like now it’s the third world war, we could say, and we are saying that we can teach some of the nations and the countries how to fight and what to do. And like nowadays, when now is spring, it’s warm and yeah, we were watching news that it’s a third world war and people are like, “Oh, but it’s spring, it’s warm, we can go out”. And like everyone was doing this reels that say spring and we can go out after this harsh winter, blackouts and cold times. So, yeah, that’s kind of one thing that keeps people alive during these times.

What are the stories about? Yeah, probably you’ve heard about the guy in 2022 that was holding the mine. And like there was a tank going inside and he grabbed this mine and just put it with the cigarettes in his hand. Yeah, so most of the stories comes from that time.

Now- well, the last story that happened that I remember, it was spread in Threads, in Instagram channel. Probably you know, it’s like a Twitter, but Threads. So the girl was going by bus to Ukraine with one of Italian guy. And he started to talk that he loves Putin and he loves Russia and so she asked “why you’re entering Ukraine?” “I have a wife there and blah blah blah” and she said to him that “I will make sure that you will not enter Ukraine” so she went to the guards and said- she was telling the story, like what he told her, and yeah. That’s becomes a spread in the media that she said like “I will lie down but he will never go in Ukraine,” like he will not enter Ukraine. It was spreaded, like virally, and people started to speak about that and commenting on that.

So it’s kind of things that keeps people like united, and we know like that’s our story, and I guess it comes from the like, we are making the folklore and the history, right away, right now, during this. It’s kind of things that people already, I guess, our children- they are learning it at school, like what’s happening during the now full-scale invasion and before, like in 2014. This kind of things, it keeps them, like, as a symbol of what was happening to remember, like, what was during that time and this year.

Vic: Why do you think there’s less stories now compared to 2022?

Ana: Well I guess like most of the war that is happening, the people are starting to forget, especially abroad <laughs>. Like you know there is typical question like “Ah but there is still war in Ukraine?” or like “People still dying in Ukraine?” Who is not aware, I mean, who is not. There is less news in the media. You have one or two per week, I don’t know. I was in Portugal, like I didn’t see much and they don’t know what’s really happening. I guess people get used to it, so it’s become like too much of what’s happening inside here, so there is nothing to make out of it, you know, something big. There is like really a lot of them, a lot of stories, but it’s not like for media to capture it.

I don’t know, maybe- it was a stress for everyone in the beginning and that’s how- I don’t know, how people- I don’t know. It’s already becoming like a normal life now and at that time it was not normal <laughs>. Now it’s normal so people are like “ah pffft attack, ah pfft another air siren off, another village is captured”. Unfortunately it’s become like that and that’s why, maybe.

Vic: So do you think people need the heroes less now?

Ana: No. It’s- okay, what do you mean by heroes?

Vic: I guess of these stories, like the Ghost of Kyiv. Ones that people can rally behind and talk about as like, “Yeah, he’s saving Ukrainian people, he’s inspiring hope”.

Ana: No I don’t think so, but- because we already have a lot of heroes that unfortunately died and were killed. And that’s what we are talking about now. Like in my bubble, we are trying to make a memory out of it. Like, for people to speak about the people that we lost. We are making evenings of remembering our friends, and like for example this bracelet also it’s winning, sorry, who remembers those is winning. So if we remember, you are winning already. I don’t know, we have most of the heroes that we are talking about that were killed. But I’m pretty sure that we have heroes nowadays, it’s definitely like a lot of commanders of the brigade and we- they are valued. But Ghost of Kyiv I mean yeah, it’s kind of, it was great on the beginning. But now it’s kind of a memory <laughs>.

Vic: Yeah I heard that the Ghost of Kyiv died.

Ana: Yeah. There was also one of the photograph- there was a like shelling in Kyiv or rocket, I’m not sure. There was full balcony that was destroyed, but she captured the destroyed balcony with the rooster, or ceramic rooster- so basically it survived, and there is a photo of it that also was viral and people started to do the art out of it. Like posters, stickers again as you said, and a lot of things like that. That’s comes for- it’s not a superstition, it’s symbol that usually like- you know soldiers are taking some of the drawings, kids drawings to the front on the missions so they can, they know that it will protect them, like on their mission for example.

Or like my husband for example, he has the bracelet also, and that’s the only thing that he is always touching and remembers, “Okay I know what I’m fighting for” and it’s like the gift of my wife. Or like the ring, again it’s like typical. So these kind of things that after especially- I know the stories of people that also survived during the shellings and there was like everything was destroyed, but there is one thing that was alive, I know the toy or ceramic cup or something like that, so they took it with them as a memory of what happened and as a symbol of what happened. Or talisman, or I don’t know, whatever you say.

Vic: So with soldiers, is it- are these talismans that they’ve got more to remind them of who they’re fighting for or do they feel like they bring them luck?

Ana: Both, I guess both. Because especially kids’ drawings, it becomes for me emotionally actually when I see that because I love kids, and my husband is usually sharing with me the pictures that they got, like volunteers, from the volunteers. It’s, it’s emotionally hard because there is not much… fun? There’s no fun <laughs>. I mean, no good emotions that can bring during that time, and that’s something that keeps them alive, and mentally strong, you know, like something they can think about as good.

Vic: So I noticed you’re wearing a ring with a bird on it. What bird is it?

Ana: There is a thing that pigeons are kind of symbolized of freedom, and actually birds symbolize freedom usually. This- we have one of the brands in Ukraine that started to make these rings and necklace.

Vic: Kram?

Ana: Not the Kram, it’s Tsvite Teren, but it’s also ceramic and it was expensive <laughs>. This is a fake one, this is from, I don’t know, plastic. Yeah I don’t know, like Ukrainians started to make a lot of things like that. Not before the 2022, we didn’t have that much, but now I guess Ukrainian culture become very popular inside us, like inside here and abroad as well. The thing is like we started to learn our history better. We didn’t knew it- I mean we knew it, definitely, I studied history, but I’m talking about like other people. And they started to wear Vyshyvankas, like a lot of traditional clothes that we have like skirts, and I guess that’s also one of the symbols that unites.

I know like the brands that are helping now the military and making like minus 10% for the soldiers on discount, I guess it’s a kind of a must. It’s not something that is unique now. I’m personally, I’m supporting the businesses, local businesses that are either from the IDPs [Internally Displaced Peoples] made or they’re supporting military. Like it’s, it’s kind of a must have things during your daily life.

Also, it’s important for people outside to know about us. Like during this, I don’t know. Photography, videos, stories, culture thing, it’s kind of a new way of war that we have, and also to destroy the Russian propaganda because some of the people say that Russian propaganda and the media is more stronger than the war itself. Like the war, media war is worst. So, yeah, we are trying to also provide the information as much as possible of what’s happening here.

Vic: I mean when I’ve been on the intercity trains, and also a little bit in the metro in Kyiv I’ve seen they have like, all like kinds of quizzes about “what is this item called” and it’ll be like, you know, traditional cultural dress. Or they’ll have the video where they show like “oh Zaporizhzhia has this kind of outfit” and yeah.

Ana: Yes and of course Ukrzaliznytsia [Ukrainian national rail company] as well like our railway station I guess it’s also one of the examples of business- I mean it’s not business, it’s actually, it’s logistical hub that also kind of, I don’t know. It’s- our railway station is impressive honestly. I was comparing abroad, like if the train were late for 1 hour because of the bad weather, and our trains are going to the front line and saying “oh sorry we will be 2 hours late”. Or during the attack on the railway station this winter, like the trains were delayed for 2 hours, but I didn’t see much complaints from Ukraine because they know the situation. They know what’s happening and that’s normal and thanks for them that they’re still working. They made a lot of also like hoodies, clothes, bags, stickers, patches.

Vic: For the railway?

Ana: Yeah, and kind of in cool Ukrainian design. They had also a good exhibition, Ukraine Wow. It’s on the railway, like inside the Kyiv railway station there. I spent like 3 hours there because it’s a full history of Ukraine, like starting from the beginning, till, I don’t know, till Olympic Games and Eurovision, so like all of the history.

Vic: So it’s still there now?

Ana: I’m not sure, but I should check. But that’s really great to see and I recommend it. There is still in English also translation I suppose. So yeah, like we have a lot of examples like that of, I don’t know, people are making something out of nothing sometimes <laughs>. But, yeah.

Vic: So before I started recording you mentioned that it’s bad luck to throw your bullets on the ground? Could you tell me about?

Ana: I don’t know much about that, but that’s something I heard. I was going to the polygon [a training field] with some of the soldiers to shoot, and I dropped some of the bullets on the ground. They told me the story like if you threw the bullets on the ground on the mission, it will be a bad mission, or something might happen. Or like of taking the pictures before, like not to take the pictures before the mission. But again I’m not sure that everyone will tell you the same, it’s something that I heard.

Vic: So is that photos of yourself, or?

Ana: Yeah of yourself. Of yourself with the ammunitions.

Vic: So is that you went to a shooting range?

Ana: Yeah.

Vic: Do a lot of Ukrainian women go to shooting ranges now or is it just…?

Ana: Well in my bubble, yes <laughs>. But I don’t know. If you have a husband, especially in the military, I guess a lot of women- well, maybe, I’m not sure, they are trying to be related to what’s happening. So either they are volunteering or they are going to the shooting range. A lot of them want to mobilize as well. So that’s like in their head, but usually our husbands, <laughs> they don’t allow us to do so, definitely, with the swears and everything. But yeah, I think a lot of NGOs also started to work and I know that they are helping women especially to gain some skills, if they want. It’s trainings for 5 days, 2 weeks, 10 days, and you have everything there like this FPV drones, shooting, and yeah. Different trainings for free for civilians and both for the military.

Vic: So they can learn how to fly a drone?

Ana: Yeah. Well it’s cost money because drone is expensive.

Vic: Is that, like, with the purpose of bringing people together? Or is it to try and, I guess, maybe someone flies a drone and they go “Oh, I love this. I’m going to go and list now”.

Ana: For some of them. Well, it’s- first of all because it’s not an easy thing to do and personally, me, I’m going just to gain these skills and to try if it suits me or not <laughs>. So, yeah, I mean, if you want to join the military, definitely you need to have some skills in the, first of all, in the first aid support. I have a tourniquet with me, all the time wearing. I guess, well I not guess, I think all of the people must wear the tourniquet nowadays because it can save your life. That’s kind of a basic skill if you are Ukrainian <laughs>. Well even not Ukrainian I guess, for everyone it’s important.

Vic: So it’s common for Ukrainians to carry tourniquets, like in the cities?

Ana: In my bubble, yes. Let’s say I am, and I want- I would like everyone to wear them. But we have kind of a military culture here. I personally can recognize person that is like either serving in the military, if he is in civilian clothes. It’s like if you are wearing, for example, the bag like that [points to my bag] <laughs> as you have, or there is a kind of a funny bag with the patches there. Or there is typical Ukrainian brands that are related to the military, or either you are protesting for like Free Azov, or there is different kind of things. So you can just catch “okay, this person is related”. Related to the either volunteering, either, yeah. This is person that you can talk to <laughs>. It’s not like out of the context.

Vic: I think my specific one I see as the volunteer bag because it seems to be the one that everyone buys as a volunteer, because it’s got the bit for patches and I’ve got my British flag! So you’re not going to confuse me for a real person.

Ana: Yeah definitely <laughs>. Yeah and patches also became a very popular thing that you can collect. I know a lot of girls and guys, they have a patch board inside their house with a lot of gifts. It’s also a symbol because most of them are- well some of them are you can buy definitely, like a pink one with a gun, or OnlyWars [a common motif in the style of the PornHub logo] or Ruzkim Pizda [Russians are fucked (doomed)] which means like uhh…

Vic: Something’s fucked?

Ana: <laughs> Yeah something like that, it’s very popular one. But some of them from the brigades, you definitely was gained. Either you volunteered, or just as a gift, or definitely it’s a memory, and I also have some of them.

Vic: Yeah, I mean in volunteer groups like people display theirs really proudly because a lot of the volunteer hubs will have their own chevron or patch that they hand out. And yeah people who’ve worked with certain brigades and then get sent one in return. I also met one guy who just made one for himself, like he’s into NAFO, so he’s got his little dog character of himself, and he just hands them out because people find it funny cos it’s a little dog guy.

Ana: Yeah and it’s a cool business actually <laughs> you can make money out of it if you are making the patches, like it was also a meme before. But also some of the, like not only the patches, but the things that were gained from the other occupied territories, unfortunately, or like close to the front line- even a stone you can sell in the auction. What I mean by that, me and my friends, we are making sometimes this- well unfortunately usually it’s happening during the funerals, and after that we are making an evening of the memory of this person. We are making the auctions to donate for any of the- like we are collecting the money for like three cars for example. I have vinyl, or patches.

Last time I had a piece from the church that was destroyed by the Iskander. And it was destroyed with the hole- it’s kind of a golden dome with the hole. So we sold it for like 3500. The auction started with a 200, and someone said 300, and then 500, and it raced. Or like Queen music, or vinyl, or patches or anything like that, it’s also good things. Even the stone can be, or banana <laughs>. We have a comedian, Ukrainian comedians that were doing also after their stand-ups, they were selling banana to the audience.

Vic: Like the fruit?

Ana: Like normal fruits with the signature of maybe this comedian. And it was sold- I don’t remember the amount but big <laughs>.

Vic: For a banana.

Ana: Yeah, yeah. Or like a jacket, anything can be sold in the auction. And that’s cool also for people because I don’t think that most of them want this so much, for this amount, because you can buy it everywhere, but they know that it’s important to donate. It’s kind of gamification.

Vic: Yeah. I do that for fundraisers back in the UK. Like, I’ve been to Pochaina [Area of Kyiv with a large maket] and I’ve just bought a bunch of chevrons with patches at the market there for cheap, then I can take them back to the UK and be like” well this has come from Kyiv” and then people will give me money that I can then give to whoever I’m fundraising for.

Ana: Wow that’s cool. And I guess it’s also important for the foreigners to know that it’s from Ukraine.

Vic: Yeah, like I can show photos of like it’s definitely not just random China stuff from Temu.

Ana: Yeah that’s cool, thanks for that.

Vic: It’s a good technique.

Ana: I guess it’s… I don’t think that any- well, I didn’t heard it anywhere except of Ukraine that we are doing that. And also we have the app Monobank. It’s a bank.

Vic: Yeah, but it doesn’t work with British cards. Like British bank cards can’t donate to the Monobank jars, which is really annoying.

Ana: Yeah it is annoying, but usually you can- well, people have a PayPal.

Vic: Yeah, yes, that’s what I have to use.

Ana: So yeah, it’s easy to open and usually like we have this separate, like, to open the donation. And we have also a design of this card, let me show you.

Vic: Yeah, I can’t remember which bank it was but someone was showing me their Ukrainian bank account app and it shows you the like, how many Russians have been killed.

Ana: Yeah, that’s also true. So like when I’m paying for example Google pay I’m doing that, so they can see it like, the design of the card. [Ana flicks through card design options in the app] Or like Stalker, the game, Ukrainian game. Or the Stala, Ukrainian famous Stala in the Donetsk Oblast, definitely. Or these soldiers playing the trembita, which is the biggest Ukrainian instrument.

Vic: I’ve not seen that picture before.

Ana: I think it’s not even the biggest Ukrainian, it’s the biggest instrument in the world. So we had the Eurovision also with this one. And yeah, kind of [continues to scroll]

Vic: Stranger Things.

Ana: Stranger Things, yeah. And this is like the quote from this girl that was going by bus with this Italian guy that was saying “I love Putin” and blah blah blah. So they made a quote of it from the Threads. “I will lie down, but he will not come to Ukraine”.

Vic: Yeah I remember all the drama about him.

Ana: Yeah. [scrolls] Olympic Games. Yeah, the memories. So yeah, I guess we are super creative nation. Also in the beginning of the full-scale invasion we had the separate group chats, that everyone wanted to make something to help, to support. They were doing everything. Starting from the posters to sharing it abroad. From translating the news from Ukrainian to English, by minutes, like what was happening. People, everyone was trying to make something that they could. And they can.

Vic: I guess that’s where the stories come out of the lady throwing the jar of pickles. Like what can a babusia do? Well, take down a drone.

Ana: Definitely. And yeah, I know, like, a lot of people in the occupied territories now, they want to go back to Ukraine, but it’s very dangerous to share something on the media that you support Ukraine. We have stories where people were writing like, for example, Slava Ukraini on the paper, making a photo, and sending it to the journalist. The journalists were posting that and I don’t support that because it’s really dangerous. If you’re good in investigation, you can easily find this person, honestly. And that’s, yeah.

There is also the mark of Kherson, occupied Kherson on the left bank. So the people from there, they have the symbol of resilience. They were posting it on the media and they have, I guess, a separate page on the Instagram somewhere where they sharing this symbol. And when Kherson was liberated, a lot of people were telling these stories how they were hiding the flags underground from the Russian forces, how they were protecting everything they have related to Ukrainian symbolic. They were hiding information and yeah, it’s super hard. It’s kind of reminding me of Soviet Union methods of killing. Killing and destroying the Ukrainian nations. And that’s what we are trying to rebuild now.

Vic: Yeah, I was reading about it, like the history of how Ukrainian language was severely oppressed and they destroyed a lot of Ukrainian books, and anything in Ukrainian language.

Ana: Yeah. You come from Kharkiv, right?

Vic: I’ve been there for a few days, yeah.

Ana: So there is a house called Budynok Slova [Word House], it’s the house of words, where all of the intelligence, and Ukrainian poets. They lived there, and all of their rooms were kind of listened to by the Reds, by the Soviets. They could easily kill if you share any information that were very sensitive. It was, yeah.

Vic: I knew a lady who- she’s American, and she worked for an international organization that was like monitoring that Russia was following the Minsk Accord. And she used to say like she worked in Luhansk but she lived in Lugansk because it was basically Russia where she was living. [Redacted]

[Break]