Vic: So as a Ukrainian person, when you see people with the rune amulets or rune chevrons or tattoos, do those have any connotations for you?
Iryna: Well, I grew up in a family where tattoos are banned <laughs>. So I think that people can, you know, have as many tattoos as they want because it’s something meaningful to them. I do personally believe in the power of runes and I do personally think that putting an image, a permanent image, on your body will somehow affect or influence your life in a certain way. It’s just hard to predict how exactly it will happen, and when.
When I see people with the image of runes I always ask them “do you know what these runes mean” because most of the time I hear “yeah I know what they mean!” Actually, they mean something completely different, and then I’m like “okay this person is serious about it, or is not serious about it”. I have friends with image- with tattoos of runes. They’re super popular in Ukraine! I don’t know why. I guess that’s because Ukrainians come from Scandinavia. You know, our first settlers were Scandinavian people and they founded Kyiv, and our national anthem, it is it consists of runes. So, the Scandinavian princess, when she got married to one of our knyaz, she brought that rune with her and now it’s our national sign.
Vic: So, like the tryzub?
Iryna: The tryzub, yeah. It is a rune, a Scandinavian rune. You can read about it more online because I don’t want to, you know, mislead you. I did read a whole research on that and it was kind of amazing. So, it means a lot to us.
Vic: So you don’t see it and think they must be military or…
Iryna: Um. That would be my first guess because it started getting more popular with the full-scale invasion. So I first think that they are the military because there- it has something to do with some sort of protection that people seek, and some sort of maybe like, you know, some magic powers that will guide you in dangerous situations. That would be my first guess. But my second guess would be like, probably these people are posers <laughs>. So yeah.
Vic: Is- the people who have runes, do they tend to also be religious, generically? Or are they like different types of people that will go to church versus have runes?
Iryna: I think in Ukraine it’s very distinct. People who are religious they will not put runes on them, on their skin. They would probably put something more Orthodox, maybe like a cross or a Bible verse or something like that. People who don’t believe in God, they always- well, there is not a single person in the world who doesn’t believe in anything. Even atheists believe that there is no God, but they still believe that there is no God. And everybody looks for some- what’s the word, some, explanation for what happens to them in their life. And people who are not religious, who pretend to not believe in anything, they try to find these explanations in the magic, or in different runes, different tarot cards and all sorts of that nature. So I think that you can clearly tell if- in Ukraine the person has runes on their body, they’re 90% of the time not religious at all.
Vic: Does that mean there’s maybe some negative connotations of the runes with, I guess, the older population?
Iryna: Oh absolutely! Older people hate runes, they hate everything that is related to magic. Because- well, I’m referring to it as magic because it’s cultural for us, because that’s what we are taught. Tarot cards, runes, all these different graphic signs, it’s all magic, it all comes from the devil, you cannot use any of that. Even- you know, this, a deck of 52 cards or 36 cards, it’s also used to, you know, foresee the future and it is a sin in Ukraine to play those cards. So when you play like the Russian fool game, or- are you familiar with that?
Vic: No.
Iryna: It’s Durak, maybe you heard it, but whatever. Or you play poker, it’s also considered a sin! So the older generation <laughs>
Vic: Like with just regular cards?
Iryna: Regular cards, yes, because it all comes from the devil. In Ukraine it is a big huge belief, all your population hates it, seeing people use any sort of cards with any sort of symbols on them.
Vic: Huh. So it’s not the gambling connotation, it’s the symbolism on the cards?
Iryna: Correct.
Vic: Huh, okay.
Iryna: Well, it also… gambling also adds up to it, but it’s not the primary reason.
Vic: Okay, okay. That’s very interesting, thank you.
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