This interview took place whilst volunteering in a kitchen in Kyiv. Chrystyna [name changed] was born in the USSR in territory which is now Russia. Her family moved to Ukraine when she was a child, and she is solely a Ukrainian citizen.
TW: This story contains references to suicide.
Part two: Chrystyna on folk heroes
Vic: At this point I kind of don’t care, like everything’s so interesting.
Chrystyna: Well I don’t have you know many, many exciting stories about the war but there was a… I will just tell you now. Are you recording?
Vic: Yeah.
Chrystyna: I could tell you, and you could say whether it’s okay for your project. So at the beginning of the war, my parents’ best friend called them and she lives in the Kyiv suburb-
[Interrupted]
So my parents’ best friend lives in the suburbs, and on the 24th of February she called them and said “Why don’t you come to me? I have a private house with my well, water well, and you know it’s really a nice place and you don’t know what is going to happen in the capitol city so please stay with me for a while. We’ll see what’s going to happen”. My parents said “No, we are going to stay at home to make sure that our flat is not looted, et cetera”. And then they lost contact with her because she lived in Bucha.
Vic: Oh, jeez.
Chrystyna: Yeah. And they couldn’t talk to her for about a week. And during this week, she stayed in the cellar with her son and her daughter-in-law. And on the 1st of March or the 2nd of March, it was- I remember it was the very first days of March. They decided that they are not going to make it in the cellar anymore. They went through the forest, and the bridges- there’s a river called Irpin, which is between Kyiv and Bucha. They had to cross it there in the very first days of March. My mother’s friend is like 70, maybe 78 or so. She was 70 plus at that time. So she had to, you know, after having spent a week in the cellar, she had to cross the forest, the river. And she came to my parents’ flat to just have a sleep, you know, have a wash. My dad, when he was telling me this, how he saw her coming, you know, dirty and wet and absolutely, you know, she was, how do you call it, very, very tired, what’s the word?
Vic: Exhausted?
Chrystyna: Exhausted, yeah. And he started crying when he told me this story. So it was like a shock. I just think that it’s lucky that my parents refused to go there, and it’s lucky that she made it out. So this is the most dramatic story I can tell. She’s okay now, and she’s still using her house in Bucha.
Vic: I’ve seen a lot of projects working to rebuild stuff in Bucha and Irpin. So could you… I know you’ve already told me this story once-
Chrystyna: Yeah, I just ran it past you, just to make sure that it’s okay for your project.
Vic: No, I mean like, as many stories as I can get really, even if they’re not related to the Ghost of Kyiv or those kinds of things. But yeah, if you could tell me the story again about the time you nearly saw bears?
Chrystyna: <laughs> Well, when I was about five years old, I was living in Kamchatka, which is a peninsula in Russia in the far east, neighbouring Alaska. We went to a forest to gather mushrooms with my parents and their friends and then very suddenly- it was a, you know, very very nice forest. There was a, I remember there was a volcano near us. It was like mountain above us. And then we were rushed into the car and very quickly drove away. Then later, maybe years later, my dad explained to me that they saw bear’s faeces and it was still steaming. Really fresh, and they understood that this is not the time to be here and collect mushrooms.
Vic: How come he didn’t tell you at the time? Did he not want to scare you?
Chrystyna: Well maybe they told me but I being like five years old maybe I just didn’t pay attention to that. Or maybe they just didn’t want to scare me, which is a natural thing too. I would also- wouldn’t want to scare my kids.
Vic: I guess living in a place like that, did it feel isolated as a child?
Chrystyna: No. No, no. There were a lot of- there are people living there! It’s not like one village and that’s it. There are towns, and there are a lot of military bases there, and there are a lot of officers and soldiers etc, and they have their closed little towns with their children and wives living there so it was absolutely a normal life. We went to the kindergarten and there was a school near us. It was fun. There were a lot of kids.
Vic: So it was very common for like Soviet officers to travel around with their families to all these different places?
Chrystyna: Yes! I don’t know actually that the officers in the Soviet army stayed in the same place. They usually moved around the USSR.
Vic: Do you know why they got moved so often?
Chrystyna: Hmmm. I will ask my dad. I never asked this question myself before. It seems natural to me that they have to move <laughs>.
Vic: Yeah, but why?
Chrystyna: Maybe, you know, when you start in the army, you live in very poor conditions, in a very, very primitive house, etc. And then, as you move up the career ladder, so to say- then you can get a flat. [Interrupted]
Well, so when you actually, if you were in the Soviet army you could- you could- some people went there to get a flat, a decent flat, actually. Yeah, so you serve somewhere distant, like Kamchatka or somewhere near the Chinese border and live there in a wooden house, you know, with no facilities. But then you move to a big city. You receive a flat and it was usually a good flat. And that’s it. And so it happens like my dad, and most of his colleagues.
Vic: In the English army, and I think also the American army, if you’re married you instantly get way better housing, so there’s a thing of people who enlist and then get married as quickly as they can just so that they get a nicer place. Is that the same in Russia, or in Soviet times?
Chrystyna: Probably- you know, Soviet times were… I lived in the Soviet times when I was like in elementary school, so I don’t know a lot of details, and I never discussed it with my father. But probably if you were married you have a better accommodation. Should be so!
Vic: More related to my project- um, did you follow the news about the Ghost of Kyiv during the siege? Attempted siege <laughs>
Chrystyna: I did, but at that time I was so- in such a bad shape, because it was really a huge shock for me. And I also moved abroad with my kids and I was really suicidal. I was thinking about killing myself and harming my kids. And I was, I kept reading the news- so I don’t have any clever things to tell you about the Ghost of Kyiv. I know nothing. I just heard that it was not a single person, it was a group of people, they say.
Vic: Yeah, I’ve heard that as well. Did you leave in response to the full-scale invasion, or were you living abroad already?
Chrystyna: No. You know, it was such a coincidence. I always wanted to go skiing with my kids and my then-husband, and just- you know, I wanted to go on a skiing only holiday. I saved some money and bought some- booked some hotel at the end of February. We went there, we were having a great time. My kids love skiing. I also love skiing. And we had only one day left. The 24th was our last day of skiing and then on the 25th we had to go home. And I kind of- I’m a sweet summer child. I didn’t believe it was going to happen. I thought it was hysteria, etc. I thought that, well, normal people were in the Russian army. And, understand how silly I was. I thought that they wouldn’t let it happen. Then when the invasion started my friend who lives in Lviv region, she called us to her flat and then we were with our friends who have small children, really small, toddler. Then the Zaporizhia nuclear power plant- there was the seizure of the power plant, and our guys, our husbands decided that we should be with the kids. So we moved to Poland and then to Munich. Munchen, Munich?
Vic: Munich, yeah.
Chrystyna: We stayed there for three months and then I decided I could not make it anymore, alone with the kids who were hysterical all the time. We moved back, and then they calmed down. They said that they feel better at home. We stayed with really, really nice people. They were absolute saints. We’re still friends, in contact, and they were trying you know, to make us feel at home, took us to the picnics in the Alps. I was like you know reading this news about Bucha and all this stuff and then the next day we go to some beautiful lake in the Alps, and it was like absolutely killing me. I don’t know. It’s silly, but maybe I just needed some professional help at that time, and I was not- I did not admit it to myself.
Vic: So you re-entered Ukraine after the start to go to Lviv?
Chrystyna: No, we were in Ukraine. We were skiing in Ukraine.
Vic: Ohhh, right.
Chrystyna: Then we moved to Lviv region, spent a couple of days there. Then we moved to Poland, spent a couple of days there, and the Polish volunteers were brilliant. They were absolutely… I cannot describe how, you know, they did so much.
[Break whilst we grabbed more food to process]
Vic: So you felt better for being back in Ukraine?
Chrystyna: Well, yes, I felt better. Because my brother joined the army on the first day, and then he went to the front lines, and my parents were like, they were overwhelmed. And my brother has two daughters, and these daughters don’t have any functional mother. So I try to be their mother as much as I can. I felt really bad staying away from them. So actually this is still one of the main reasons which keeps me here. Because I will not leave them alone, especially the older one is now okay, she’s 22 she’s got a job, you know, but at the time she was 18. The younger one is going to turn 13 next month, so it was like- her mom basically left her, and her dad went to the army, went to the front line, and she was dealing with it herself. Nobody really talked to her about that, about what is going to happen. She was really- started doing self-harm. Developed a eating disorder, and I just wanted to be by her side a bit more.
Vic: Is your brother still serving?
Chrystyna: You cannot leave the army if you’re intact and not wounded.
Vic: Oh, I thought that you only had to do a certain- they had these set time contracts.
Chrystyna: He didn’t sign a contract, he was like a… at the very first day there was not this scheme.
Vic: Ahhh, yeah.
Chrystyna: And he turned up and he served on the front line, which was really a difficult time for him. But then- but now he is in Kyiv, he is training other guys. I don’t know how do you, how to say, what do you call this discipline when you find where you are, you find your…
Vic: Navigation?
Chrystyna: Well, navigation is maybe using the devices but he teaches them…
Vic: Like with maps and compass?
Chrystyna: Yeah, yeah, with the primitive ones!
Vic: Ohhh, okay! It’s important.
Chrystyna: Yeah, yeah, it’s very important. The last exercise he did with them in the winter, they went somewhere to their base and at night they were in the forest and they had to move from point A to point B without being- discreetly etc. This is what he teaches.
Vic: Okay.
Chrystyna: But he would like to leave the army. He told us that this, you know, this is one of the things that makes him sad, that he has to be in the army all the time.
Vic: I guess being able to do training is better than being at the front line.
Chrystyna: Absolutely, yes! He is very glad that he had this opportunity.
[Break whilst we grabbed more food to process]
Chrystyna: What made you come here? I always ask people, why? It’s difficult. It’s more or less dangerous sometimes.
Vic: I mean, I get to leave, so it’s less difficult for me than other people. Um. No, I’ve been coming since um, I think it was 4th of March 22, I crossed in. Yeah, to me it was just the right thing to do, to come help. So, yeah.
Chrystyna: So nice that there are people who think this is the right place to be.
Vic: Unfortunately we’re not government, so <laugh> it would be more useful if it was the government. It’s been interesting. Like with this project I was out in Kharkiv speaking to some people there, and I met up with some other like British volunteers and collected their stories of how they ended up living in Kharkiv.
Chrystyna: Oh my god, it would be interesting to hear.
Vic: Yeah, I met a really interesting lady (Fiona on her volunteering journey) who she’s been there for like three years now. The kitchen that she helps run (Fiona on Hells’ Kitchen)- it’s amazing how organized they are. Like anyone who wants to come to the kitchen has to be interviewed and all sorts. I guess because it’s Kharkiv you’ve got to take security more seriously.
Chrystyna: Maybe, maybe.
Vic: It wasn’t so- Kharkiv wasn’t as loud [referring to explosions] as I expected it to be.
Chrystyna: Oh really? At the beginning of the full-scale invasion?
Vic: No, no, like last week when I was there. Oh yeah, at the beginning I imagine it was awful.
Chrystyna: I think it was hell.
Vic: Yeah. Last week it wasn’t too bad. Although Kyiv’s been very quiet since I got here.
Chrystyna: Well, because if you follow the news, we have a lot of, you know, depots and military plants destroyed in Russia, and plus this war in Iran is also…
Vic: Yeah they’re selling less Shaheds.
Chrystyna: Yeah.
Vic: Earlier you said “sweet summer child”. Is that an idiom you’ve picked up in English or is that like also a Ukrainian phrase?
Chrystyna: No, I don’t know where it comes from, but I see it used to describe people as me, who are naive, you know, believing in the good people, etc.
[Break whilst we grabbed more food to process]
Chrystyna: And you stay in a hotel?
Vic: Yeah.
Chrystyna: What do you do when you don’t cook in the kitchen?
Vic: Um. So I’ve been doing interviews on this trip. I’ve been going to the evening English speaking clubs to try and collect stories and find people who are willing to <laughs> put up with me shoving a recorder at them.
Chrystyna: So they practice English and you collect stories. This is handy.
Vic: Yeah, yeah. Also just do sightseeing stuff. I’ve also been doing a little side project taking photos of murals around Kyiv.
Chrystyna: Murals?
Vic: Yeah, there’s so many beautiful murals in the city. I have a friend who lives in Troyeshchina [area of Kyiv], so I’m going to see him this evening, or this afternoon after working here, which will be cool. Yeah, I keep busy. I just go back to the hotel to sleep really. <laughs>
Chrystyna: Did you see any places that you really liked about Kyiv?
Vic: Um. For tourism, or…?
Chrystyna: Well, just for you as a person.
Vic: Oh. I mean, I like Podil [an area of Kyiv].
Chrystyna: Of course, of course. <laughs>
Vic: That’s where I stay. <laughs>
Chrystyna: Yeah, everybody does.
Vic: Yeah, it’s a lot of tourism stuff. I think I found the most expensive breakfast place in Ukraine.
Chrystyna: Which is?
Vic: I can’t remember the name of it, but it’s next to my hotel, and my hotel is very cheap. But the breakfasts at this place next door it’s like 400 hryvnia for like a sandwich.
Chrystyna: <makes a shocked face>
Vic: Yeah, I know!
Chrystyna: Outrageous.
Vic: But then there’s one further up the street that’s like you know 80 hryvnia for a thing.
Chrystyna: Of course.
Vic: Yeah I was like, “this is English prices!” <laughs> I’ve never seen such high prices. For breakfast as well!
Chrystyna: Prices are rising.
Vic: Yeah. I mean, I like- There’s so much scenic stuff to wander round, like Maidan Nezalezhnosti, and from there you walk up to like the glass bridge and walk along there. Swing by St. Michael’s, St. Sophia’s, Andrew’s Descent, like there’s all them market stalls on there.
Chrystyna: And then you’re back to Podil.
Vic: Yeah.
Chrystyna: Did you cross the pedestrian bridge and went to the island?
Vic: I’ve still not been to the island, really.
Chrystyna: Ah because the weather was…
Vic: <laughs> Yeah, right now maybe not. I’ve been here in the summer before and I just… I don’t know. I think I’ve been a bit more touristy on this trip because I’m- the primary focus here is to do these interviews. Whereas previously the primary focus was to volunteer. So if I’m not volunteering I feel bad because I’m like, I should be helping. But I don’t feel so guilty on this one. <laughs>
Vic: I like the statue, the Motherland statue. And the Museum of Modern Conflicts.
Chrystyna: I’ve never been there!
Vic: They’ve completely redone it. Like, previously it had a lot of World War II stuff, but now it’s…
Chrystyna: Because this was the museum of World War II. It was like… it was called the Great Patriotic War.
Vic: Yeah.
Chrystyna: I only learned that the Great Patriotic War was the part of the World War II when I was like maybe 11. So we were taught about the Great Patriotic War and never, never the World War II was mentioned. It was only Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, that’s it.
Vic: Did they teach about like the Bandera side of things?
Chrystyna: When I was a child, no. Still, well, I was 11 when the Soviet Union collapsed, and we were not taught about Bandera and this Ukrainian uprising army. Or how do you call it? My kids now are into it. No, I don’t mean they are into it, but they are taught this at school.
Vic: Do they teach kids about the current, you know, full-scale invasion? I guess is it enough to live through it.
Chrystyna: Well, no. They sometimes, you know, have these drills, how to run away from, what to do when there’s a fire, etc, when there’s bombing. But they don’t speak too much about the political stuff. Well, schools are struggling. It’s difficult for the teachers to work normally. It’s difficult for the kids to work normally with these blackouts, you know, and etc. So I’m grateful for that, what they are doing.
Vic: Do schools still have to close if there’s sirens?
Chrystyna: They have to evacuate the kids into the cellar, into this shelter, and kids stay there until the air raid is over.
Vic: Wow.
Chrystyna: Yes, this is what I expect. And my kids don’t like going there because it’s, you know, three or four hundred kids sitting in a cellar. Screaming. And then it’s difficult to spend a long time there. And they always ask me, “mom, can I go, please?” Although they are teenagers already, they still don’t like being there. But I prefer them to be inside.
Vic: How old are they?
Chrystyna: 14, and the younger one is 12, almost 13.
Vic: So definitely old enough to complain about it.
Chrystyna: Yeah, yeah. But I’m not going to you know, run to school and get them home.
Vic: Yeah, understandable.
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