Vic: Could you just say the thing you said again about how you think that maybe people are more interested in luck when they’re dealing with IEDs?
Jason: Yeah. I just think the nature of the threat that IEDs pose in the wars that the US and the UK and NATO and definitely thought Iraq and Afghanistan, there’s less- you have less control over your destiny when you’re driving in a Humvee down a road that may or may not be mined than in a gunfight or something a little more interactive. So just the fact that it’s- there’s a strong element of chance, I think lends itself to superstition more than other types of military threats.
Vic: If you don’t mind sharing, have there been any instances where intuition has saved you?
Jason: Um. No, I can’t really say that I can recall any. My experience in Afghanistan was relatively safe. I was there in 2016 and then 2019, and most of what we were doing at that point was training the Afghan National Army to try to operate on their own independent of NATO support. And so they were doing the bulk of the actual fighting. We were pretty heavily restricted to the base. So the only- the primary thing that we were at risk of was Taliban rockets. They’d shoot at our base from time to time, which is in some ways like the experience of living in, you know, Kyiv right now. They happen- they’re sort of dangerous in an abstract way, but sort of inaccurate, and you sort of get used to it. It’s one of those things that you end up just trying to roll over and go back to sleep.
Vic: Like earlier in my time in Ukraine, I remember someone was telling me about like um- I think he was in the military and one of his colleagues had- I can’t remember what the material was, it was some kind of blanket that’s made out of this blast resistance stuff that I think they’re supposed to put over like tents or something, I’m not sure. But apparently he was slightly renowned for when there was an attack on their base and everyone’s supposed to go to shelter, if it was in the night he would just pull out this blanket put it over himself and be like “I’m safe now it’s blast proof!” and try and refuse to move. The person I was speaking to was joking about how they want one of them for Ukraine, so. I mean, I don’t think it would actually help you if there was a blast, but maybe it’s like a safety blanket.
Jason: Yeah, I’m sure that wouldn’t actually do anything.
Vic: Yeah, I feel like here broken glass is one of the- because you know one apartment gets hit everything around it gets the windows killed. I was speaking to some guy who actually had a Shahed hit the apartment opposite him and his windows got blown out. But on his floor afterwards he found a ton of like metal ball bearings, so, you know. Not targeting civilians, but they’re loaded with shrapnel. So yeah, definitely the windows are a risk.
Eric: I mean the first time I experienced the bombing I said I will shut the curtains. I feel more protected by shutting the curtains even if it’s like no difference.
Vic: Yeah, it will catch some of the shrapnel.
Jason: Might be.
Vic: So’ve you only had one big attack while you’ve been here?
Eric: Yes.
Vic: Did you go to the shelter or did you just shut curtains and stay?
Eric: Yeah, I just stayed there. I was trying to fall asleep and then an explosion wake me up and then I couldn’t go to sleep again, so.
Vic: But you still stayed in the room?
Eric: Yes.
Vic: How come you didn’t go to shelter if you were scared?
Eric: Because I did the math in my head, say, okay, how many buildings are in Kyiv? I was thinking, okay, this building has lasted the whole war, the four years, so it’s unlikely that in the two weeks that I’m here it will be hit. <laughs>
Vic: It’s very pragmatic of you. <laughs>
Vic: If there was anything coming like super close to you, do you reckon you’d move?
Eric: I don’t know. I mean if I heard really often, like every five minutes falling something, then I would… The good thing is I just go out of the building and there is the metro station.
Vic: Oh yeah, don’t go outside during it, but, um. Have you heard the thing about two walls?
Eric: Yes, we are trying to stay within two walls. I mean, two walls at least.
Vic: Yeah, it’s interesting because a lot of people have told me, like, you know, they go to the bathroom or something, but someone was telling me actually the bathroom’s a bad place to be because there’s hot water pipes and if something damages the pipes you’re gonna get scolded. And also like yes there’s no windows but there’s tiles on the wall, and the tiles can injure you. So just going to the corridor, I think is the-
Jason: Yeah, stairwells as well right?
Vic: Yeah stairwells, anything near an elevator cos it’s gonna be very reinforced.
Eric: No, not in my case. My apartment- I don’t know, it has like a central area so it’s like a-
Vic: Oh, the courtyard.
Eric: Yes. I mean it’s dark, but yeah the ceiling is just some transparent plastic you know <laughs>. Okay, I’ll go to the bathrooms.
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