Part 1: Bogdan on his time in captivity: Part 1
Part 2: Bogdan on his time in captivity: Part 2
Part 3: A smoke break with Bogdan
Part 4: Bogdan on the Civilian Prisoners of War organisation
V: When I talk to people from Lviv and Kyiv, they’re quite far from the front. Especially in Lviv, where you could almost pretend that there’s no war. People there talk about things like Patron the dog and the Ghost of Kyiv, and talk about farmers stealing tanks, and other stories of events that are taking place across Ukraine. It inspires them with hope. But they are not the ones living on the front and having to deal directly with the russian invasion. Do people here still tell stories like that?
I: [Interpreting to Ukrainian].
B: I know what Kyiv and Lviv are saying, and not just from hearsay. I’m in Kyiv very often, Lviv a bit less because it’s far. What do they talk about around here? Since the front line isn’t far and we feel it more ourselves, most folks don’t live on… let’s say, Patron the dog – he was here in Balakliia for a bit back in 2024.
I: Really? [in English] Patron the dog was here in Balakliia in 2024.
B: [in Ukrainian] Yeah, yeah. And I went with the kids to meet the soldiers, so we’re acquainted. As for the Ghost of Kyiv, that fella… [long pause]. Back in 2007-2008, when we were working in Kyiv and he was studying at the flight school, we knew him.
I: Personally?
B: Yeah.
I: That’s cool.
B: It’s cool we got stories like that, that even folks a bit further from the front line, that there’s something that… how do I say it right…—
I: Something that unites?
B: Yeah, some kind of folk symbol or a hero that keeps the whole nation together in a bunch. There’re different stories, different cases, but let’s not talk about the bad stuff. We’re talking about how we got, say, this Patron the dog, and when you saw him on TV or the internet (Instagram, TikTok, Facebook) when you watched him and then you met him here, well, man, that’s cool. It’s really cool.
I: [in English] I don’t even know where to start. [laughs]
V: Patron the dog was here? [laughs]
I: Patron the dog was here in 2024, he was stationed here for quite some time. [laughs] [Interpreting Respondent’s words to English].
V: Was Bohdan at pilot school in Kyiv?
I: [Interpreting to Ukrainian].
B: No, at that time I was working there and we, let’s say, were working not far from him.
I: [Interpreting to English].
B: Lived in the same dorm.
I: [Interpreting to English].
B: Yeah. You know, as far as different heroes go, I drew a parallel for myself a long time ago – how we’re different from those “uzkiye” [Note: he used a derogatory play on the word “russkiye” (ethnic russians) that sounds like “uzkiye” (narrow), implying that russians have a “narrow” or limited worldview, specifically regarding their support for the war]. Their symbol is what, a matryoshka, empty inside? Right? But for us, even that Patron – it’s a living creature. One you feel… what’s the word… soulful [he used a russified adverb “voodushevlionno” that means inspired] about.
I: Yes, inspired.
B: And what do they have? It’s empty there. And that’s a really big difference between us. We’ve got things we believe in. Even if folks never saw that Patron dog, or have no clue who the Ghost of Kyiv is, they know this cool story about what that guy was doing – it’s just wow! That’s where our unity is.
Long, long before Ukraine even appeared, they were always trying to choke us somehow, so we wouldn’t have the chance to speak Ukrainian. Our poets and writers showed it well, that the Ukrainian language is the best and we’re an unbowed people. That we won’t kneel before nobody. And as an example, here’s the 21st century, here’s the war. Why’d everything hold up in ’22? Because, and I’m not afraid to say it, the state was being prepared to be handed over just like that [snaps fingers], just given away without a fight. Thanks to our people, the boys held out. Even the gypsies who stole tanks, the Konotop witches, what were they doing then? And in this, you know, that…—
I: Konotop witches? I don’t really remember anything about Konotop witches [Konotop is a city in the Sumy region of northeastern Ukraine, close to the russian border].
B: Man, what’re you talking about? No, no, as far as Sumy goes, they have plenty of stories like that.
I: Yeah? Will you tell me? ‘Cause I haven’t even heard of it.
B: Let’s say, as far as the Konotop witches go, that’s a 100% fable, that they were enchanting them [the occupiers] so they’d turn around and go back. But what isn’t a fable is that they were cooking food, poisoning them – that’s 100% reality. When our guys went into Russian territory, I was in Sudzha too, and went there to visit. I was doing volunteer work, helping our boys. And when we’d stop at the Sumy border (that’s already Russia further on) you could only go in if one of the boys picked you up, so we had to spend the night there. And more than once we heard about how they’d cook food, poison them, give them moonshine, and then, well, long story short, they [occupiers] weren’t around anymore.
I: And that’s what makes us different from the Russians, right? The unity and that people are proactive here, right?
B: Of course. Well, look, 2022. Look at us – our army wasn’t ready for an invasion. It just wasn’t. It was constantly being torn down, and they [international community led by pro-russian forces] didn’t give us any chance to exist as a strong state. Took the nukes, gave guarantees. Well, that’s all just fiction.
I: They [the pro-russian Ukrainian government] reduced the number of personnel.
B: Yeah, by a lot. They demined Chonhar [Note: a key entry-exit checkpoint on the administrative boundary line with occupied Crimea, created in 2014 after russian invasion], the Kharkiv region…—
I: That I don’t get at all. They demined Chonhar literally just days before the invasion.
B: They demined the Kharkiv region, too. It’s clear they were getting ready to just hand it [Ukraine] over. And that’s it. But thanks to the fact that our people know how to self-organize, we’re standing, we’re still standing. How’s that “we’ll take Kyiv in three days” going? Yeah, they’ve been taking it behind the cheek for nearly five years now.
I: [laughs] That’s a good one, never heard it like that, but I like it.
B: That’s just some dark humor. [laughs]
I: Very cool. [Summarizing it in English]. He also told a story which is half gossip, half true about the Konotop witches. Have you heard about it?
V: I don’t think so.
I: I haven’t either, but, apparently, it’s very popular here. [Translates the story of the Konotop witches into English].
V: Are there any stories about everyday people in Kursk kind of resisting and trying to… —
I: No that we’ve heard of. [in Ukrainian to Respondent] Are there any stories from Kursk or Sudzha where local residents tried to put up similar resistance to our troops?
B: No. As far as civilians go, there wasn’t any resistance from the population there at all. Because the difference between how they came in here and how our boys went in there is just massive. While they came here and looted toilets, washing machines, and everything else, taking cars – when our guys went in, what comes to self-organization, there weren’t any volunteers there who, say, started supporting their own people who stayed behind from the russian side. No, they were just abandoned, stay there, do whatever you want.
And there definitely wasn’t any resistance, so our boys helped a lot of them with food, as people’s supplies ran out very quickly. Our boys supported them, and they helped the local population with medicine too. Those who needed to be evacuated were taken to hospitals in Sumy, I mean people who needed medical help that couldn’t be provided on the spot. There was no resistance there whatsoever.
I: [Interpreting to English]. So Ukrainians were helping the people more than the Russians did, who didn’t even help. Which is ridiculous, if you ask me. And I remember that, too. I remember how all those people spoke Ukrainian in the Kursk region. Most of them, 90% of the population, speak Ukrainian to this day. Because they used to be a part of Ukraine that was occupied by Russia a very long time ago.
V: Thank you. Is the Ghost of Kyiv still alive?
I: [Interpreting to Ukrainian]. No?
B: No.
I: Do you know anything about him?
B: He died at the end of 2022.
I: I thought that was a fake. [Interpreting to English].
B: And the real Patron the dog isn’t around anymore either.
I: Really? [Interpreting to English] In what sense, how?
V: [in English] So is it multiple dogs or what?
I: [Interpreting to Ukrainian].
B: This is already the second one. The one they show now – it’s a completely different dog.
I: [Interpreting to English] [in Ukrainian] And what happened to him?
B: He had some trouble with his internal organs.
I: [Interpreting to English] [in Ukrainian to Respondent] Does nobody know about this? Did they only tell you?
B: No. It just wasn’t publicized in the media. Simply…
I: They just quietly swapped him out.
B: Exactly.
I: Right. [Interpreting to English].
B: Well, he’s got to remain a national hero, right? He exists – that’s it. Right?
I: [Interpreting to English].
V: I don’t know if I should tell this to my friend in Lviv about this. She loves Patron the dog. She sang a couple of songs to me when we were in a cafe and I asked her about Patron the dog. Probably better not to tell her [laughs].
I: Well, it’s your choice [laughs]. I don’t know. It’s a tough call for you. [Interpreting to Ukrainian]
B: Well, like I said, they didn’t really talk about it much. When he was here, it’s just that we have a vet pharmacy and a clinic right here.
I: And they brought him there? The original first one or the second one already?
B: No, the original first one, the one that was here with us.
I: So that’s how you met him or what?
B: Well, because here’s our door, and the clinic’s just a little bit further up there. That is how.
I: [Interpreting to English]. [in Ukrainian to Respondent] Did he die here or not? So he was still alive and then somehow after Balakliia…—
B: The problems started here already, and he started getting his treatments.
I: [Interpreting to English]. [in Ukrainian to Respondent] Do you know where he died?
B: In the Kyiv region.
I: In the Kyiv region? [Interpreting to English]. Something like the Konotop witches. Because we’ve heard about that in our parts, but it’s like, they don’t talk about it that much. Well, Konotop witches are just Konotop witches. I’ve heard of them, but I didn’t know the real situation. Is there anything local like that people talk about more here?
B: Honestly, I don’t know what to tell you. Look, every region has its own thing. Here, during the occupation, old ladies helped “finish” their lives for them [occupiers].
I: The occupiers? How, with pies?
B: Yeah. Right there near “Veterok” there was a grandma [Note: he uses a russified term “babushka”] who made them [pies], and a lot of them were gone. And what can you do, the grandma was nearly 90 years old, what are you gonna do to her?
I: Someone actually told me about that, by the way. Where is she? Is she still alive?
B: Honestly, I don’t know. I don’t know if she’s alive or not. Because in ’22-’23 she was definitely alive. As for today, I don’t know. Since we stopped helping civilians in our city and the district, I’ve distanced myself from that a bit. Now we have our own sphere we work in. You know, we had some interesting stories here, too. Like, I don’t know if you heard, there are distribution boxes for the internet on the street poles, and when the fiber-optic cable that the internet runs on was severed after shelling, some Buryat decided to wind it up into a box. People asked him: “Hey, where are you going with that?” And he’d say: “Well, the internet is in here. I’m sending it home.”
I: [laughs loudly] Are you serious?
B: Yeah. I can’t say for sure if they were Buryats or Tungus [Note: Tungus refers to members of the indigenous Tungusic-speaking ethnic groups from Siberia and the russian Far East].
I: Tungus too, gosh! Let’s say Buryats.
B: No, no, those were there, too. If a Buryat is small and narrow-eyed, the other one is tall and also narrow-eyed. We had everyone you could think of here. Chechens, too [Note: referring to Chechen paramilitary units, notorious for their particular ruthlessness and brutality during the invasion]. They were all here. Right where Vitalik had a warehouse, and opposite it was a house that had burned down. Those Tungus lived in an old lady’s apartment there. This is a real story and it’s 100% true.
Anyway, the grandma came there to see them. She came from time to time to check if everything was okay. And she says, “I walk in, and they are flushing, pressing the button on the toilet, and drawing the water.” She says: “What are you doing?” And they go: “Why, it’s sparkling water, mineral water.” You get it? The old lad says: “I’m in shock, but fine, drink up, drink up. For God’s sake, it’s not like I’m stingy or anything!”
I: Gosh, I also heard a story when we were somewhere here in Balakliia. They said these Buryats were drinking water from the toilet and tried unscrewing the water tank to send it home or take it with them, because it’s “an endless, self-replenishing source of water”. [laughs] You heard something like that, too?
B: Well yeah, it’s along the same lines as the story about how they pressed the toilet button. And winding up the internet wires. He says, “I’ll send it home.” Well, go ahead and send it, no problem.
I: [in English to Interviewer] Okay, a few stories for you. [Interprets the previous conversation into English] Do you know who the Buryats are?
V: I’ve heard people say that. I understand it’s one of the minority groups in russia?
I: Yes, yes, very short, with round faces and very narrow eyes.
V: I saw videos where they were upset that they were called Chinese.
I: Yes! [laughs]
V: And they’re like: [in russian] “I am a Buryat.”
I: Yes, they are very… crazy people… no, honestly. Very… primal. But, anyway… [continues interpreting the stories into English].
V: So is this, like, the stories about russians stealing toilets because they don’t have toilets? You know, an extension of that?
I: Yes, it’s an extension of that, for sure. Maybe you have some more questions regarding your project?
V: I mean, I was gonna to ask if there are other stories, but, I think, you’ve kinda covered that.
I: [in Ukrainian to Respondent] Maybe you’ve heard some other stories?
B: Yes, not far from us there’s a village called Volobuyevka. There’s a modern farm there, asphalt everywhere, everything’s covered in corrugated sheets. Basically, it’s all civilized.
I: It’s the horses, right? A story about horses?
B: No, no, there are cowsheds there. And when they came in, people were still working there, because you can’t just leave cows, they need constant care. And when they entered the village, well, the village had asphalt everywhere, flowerbeds all over, sidewalks, paved roads. Even though it’s a cowshed area, it’s still civilized, everything looks nice.
When they got there, they asked: “What kind of city is this?” People told them: “It’s a village.” They [the occupiers] go: “What do you mean, a village? Where we come from, we only have stuff like this in the city. You don’t see this in a village.” People told them: “Go on, take a look. It’s just a regular cowshed. Nothing supernatural about it.”
It just goes to show what savages they are, that they don’t even have basic civilization. They don’t know what it is. With the water, the internet. Every time I think of it, I remember that their national hero is “Ivan the Fool,” who just sits on the clay stove waiting for something. It shows that they’re just lazy.
I: Yeah, they don’t want to do anything, they’re just waiting for someone else to do it for them. Waiting for the “Tsar-Father” to give them something. [Interpreting to English].
V: Has there generally been a lot of… I mean, have the forces that invaded these territories mostly been Buryats? Or is it just that you get more stories about them?
I: [Interpreting to Ukrainian].
B: No, look, there were a lot of different folks here, because this was the line of demarcation, so there were many different units and many different nationalities. The Buryats just stick in your mind because they were the biggest dumbasses.
I: [laughs] [Interpreting to English].
V: [laughs] We should probably be mindful of the time.
H: Yeah, I was going to say.
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