[Sofiya is from Crimea. Prior to starting the recording, we were discussing the border crossing process].
Sofiya: It depended on the officers at the border. You would have to show your Ukrainian passport at the Ukrainian border, and then you would have to walk 3km with all your luggage, all the way to the Russian border. And there you had to hide your Ukrainian passport so they wouldn’t find it, and then show your Russian passport there at the border. I travelled with my dad a couple times. The Russians would ask my dad to stand behind me, and they would be asking me questions about my dad, and they would do the same for my dad. Like, ask me to stand behind him, and they would ask him questions about me about my appearance, my eye colour and all that. If somebody got it wrong, they would get detained. So it was always scary to cross the Russian part of the border, but not so much Ukrainian. Ukrainians are chill.
Guy: And how was it in “Russian” Crimea, because I’ve heard multiple different stories?
Sofiya: It sucked, on average. Because they relocated most of Ukrainians from Crimea to Russia. When Crimea got invaded, all the people started to get job opportunities, you know, job offers somewhere in Siberia, somewhere in Moscow Oblast, in different cities in Russia. And the job places that got created when they left were filled with Russians from Siberia. <laughs>
Guy: So it’s like a shuffle.
Sofiya: Yes, that’s that it. Just the same thing the Russians did all the time. Like, whenever they occupy a territory, they just shuffle the nationality, so then they can claim it as their land. So Crimea became russianised very, very quickly. Like within a couple months, there were a lot of Russians, and they normally don’t know how to behave themselves. The level of crime grew instantly, and it just- you couldn’t talk about Ukraine at all, or else you would get arrested. There were a lot of people who were even killed for saying that they’re Ukrainians and that they are pro-Ukrainian. I almost got kicked out from school because I was pro-Ukrainian, and my parents would- they got in trouble a few times because I just couldn’t shut up. <laughs>
So I had to switch to a different school so that I wouldn’t get into trouble there with the police, because they- Russians would send the police officers into schools, and then these police officers would walk into classrooms and talk to the kids and ask questions about Ukraine and all that kind of shit. And if the kid answers that they’re pro-Ukraine, or that they are not against Ukraine, then the parents would get called out, and yeah, they would get in trouble. So that was scary.
I remember when Crimea just got invaded, back in- it was late February, early March of 2014 and we had a competition at school. So a few schools in our area had a contest, this sports contest, and we were at the stadium, at the contest. Right next to the stadium, literally behind the fence, there were Russian tanks and artillery machines and everything, and a whole bunch of Russians wearing masks and Russian uniform. They were just all armed. And it was so surreal, it was so scary. They were also guarding the entrance to the to the stadium and checking every single kid, while also holding guns in their hands.
Guy: Jesus.
Sofiya: Yeah.
Guy: How old were you?
Sofiya: I was 12. So that’s how it started. And then Russians created Cossack troops, or Cossack units, which were just volunteers from Crimea locals who were given guns without registration, without licenses. They were just handed out guns. They were riding horses around, literal horses <laughs> back in 2014. I’m sorry, like, what’s the heck? And they were on horses if they saw somebody suspicious, they would, you know, arrest them, detain them, using force. And a lot of people got sent to Siberia, just how it was back in 1944. They were just kidnapped from Crimea, and nobody wanted to talk about it, because everybody was scared. Everybody.
So that’s why now in Crimea, if you, you know, if you ask people around, “do you want to be a part of Ukraine, or do you want to be a part of Russia”, they will say, “we want to be a part of Russia”. “Why?” “Well, we are from Russia.” Well, of course, if there is most people now who live there, they are brought from Russia, they will want to be a part of Russia because they don’t know what Ukraine is. But if you bring back all the people who left their homes behind, who escaped and left Crimea or got a job somewhere in Russia back in 2014 if you ask them, they will all say, “Yeah, we want to be a part of Ukraine”.
Vic: So is it like companies specifically trying to recruit people who are living in Crimea, like companies that are elsewhere in Russia?
Sofiya: It was a federal order for companies in Russia to create workplaces for people from occupied territories. So they had to, they were forced to, and there were quotas they had to meet, or otherwise they would face penalties. So that’s what happened. And people were- I can’t say that people from Crimea were forced to go and work in Russia, but those who held sound positions in like the military, or, you know, firefighters, the policemen, they were all just forced to move to Russia. They were all relocated to different Russian cities. And Russian military forces and police and all these special institutions, they were all sent to Crimea to control it. These exact same thing happened in Luhansk and Donetsk right away.
Vic: So did you leave Crimea as soon as you were able to really as an adult?
Sofiya: Yeah, well when I grew up, I graduated school, I was able to leave Crimea. But I had to also, like, study in two schools at the same time. I studied in a Crimean school so it wouldn’t look suspicious that a kid doesn’t go to school for some reason, because everybody has to go to school. And I also remotely studied in Kherson, and I would go there as a kid. I would go there once or twice a year to just take my exams and get grades so that I can then apply for Ukrainian universities.
Vic: Yeah, so you wanted to receive a Ukrainian education?
Sofiya: Yes, and it wasn’t something that our parents forced us to do. Our parents were very, very reasonable with that. They’re like “you build your own life. You decide whether or not you want to go studying Ukraine or stay in Russia. It’s your choice”. But they did refuse to pay for the Russian cable TV. They installed a Ukrainian satellite TV, and we would only watch Ukrainian programs. <laughs> So that helped us to make our decision a lot.
Vic: Was that dangerous for them to have Ukrainian TV?
Sofiya: Yes, it was. So we had to hide it. And there was, like, a whole thing they had to go through. But I was a kid, I don’t remember the specifics. But they had to, like, talk to somebody who knows somebody who could do it for us. And it was like- they came in the middle of the night to install it <laughs> so the neighbours wouldn’t see, because just how it was back in the USSR era, the neighbours would tell the police, “oh, I think I saw something that our neighbour did. I’m not sure, but I think I saw them do something illegal”, and you would get detained without a trial, you would be sent to prison and all that, just the same thing.
Guy: And what was the benefit for that? For that neighbour.
Sofiya: Nothing- oh, they would be on good terms with the police. The police will not be suspicious about them- well, the police is just suspicious of everybody there. And if you try to help the police, then they will close their eyes on stuff that you do, and maybe even help you, if you help them.
David: Tell them about the walnut story.
Sofiya: The walnut?
David: Yeah, after the full scale. About the lady.
Sofiya: Oh my God, it was crazy. My parents have a garden, but they also grow walnuts outside the garden. But it’s our walnuts! Then this lady would always come every year and pick up our walnuts, and nothing else. No walnuts would be left for my families. And for years and years, we didn’t know who steals it. And then my mom saw her, caught her red handed, basically. And that old lady was like, “these are community walnuts! They don’t belong to you because they’re not behind the fence and I can!” And my mom was like, “No! They’re my walnuts! I take care of them! I water them”. They started just yelling at each other in the street. And that woman was like, “It’s not your walnuts, it’s not my walnuts, it’s Ukrainian walnuts! Everything that you see here is belongs to Ukraine!” And my mom was like, “Yes, that’s right, everything belongs to Ukraine! Fuck Russia!” And they’re like, “Fuck Russia!” And they started both crying, hugging each other. <laughs>
My mom was like, “I will give you more walnuts, I will ask my husband to bring you even more walnuts”. And the woman was like, “Yeah, I’m afraid. I’m very scared that the war will come here and I won’t have anything to eat one day, and I’m trying to get as much, preserve as much food as I can”. And she was like, “I’m so sorry I stole your walnuts”. <laughs> And now they’re best friends. And then the woman came back a few times and brought something for my mom, and my mom gave her some like, canned food that my mom makes. And now they’re good friends because they found each other. Because otherwise it’s very scary to share with people that you are pro-Ukrainian, yeah.
Guy: And this is in Crimea?
Sofiya: Yes.
Guy: Huh. So your parents still live in Crimea?
Sofiya: Yeah. They stay there because they have- well, first of all, they’re super old. My dad is 76 years old, turning in a couple months, and my mom is disabled. She can barely walk around the house, and she basically never leaves the house. It’s very hard for them to leave their garden and their chickens behind.
David: The house that they spent 15, 20 years building.
Sofiya: Yeah, yeah. So they’ve always dreamt about a house where their kids could live, where their grandkids could live. And now they have it, and they don’t want to let it, you know, they don’t want to let other people to live in our house, especially Russians.
David: Yeah, because that’s how that happens. It’s like, “Yeah, it’s vacant. Let’s get somebody in here, let’s get a Russian in here”.
Sofiya: It’s now, the Russia just passed the law in January this year that empty houses, houses where people do not live or they travel for a while, are now vacant for anybody to move in.
Guy: And how’d they buy that? Do they buy it? Are they just given it by the state?
Sofiya: Depends. It depends. I’m not sure about the whole process. I am- our neighbours, they live in the US since the full-scale invasion because they have their kids there with their families, and they’re like an elderly couple. So they went to the US and stayed there. And the police and gas services, utility services, they’ve been coming to, you know, to-
Guy: Basically, check if they’re there.
Sofiya: Yeah, to track them. They wanted to cut off the power supply to their house but my dad was like, “No, I’m paying the utilities and everything, and I live here” and they’re like “No, nobody lives here, according to our data”. And my dad’s like, “No, my family lives here in this house and in this house”. They basically wanted to take this, our neighbour’s house away, and either sell it, or let Russian military live in there.
Guy: How would, how would they sell the house? Because they just, well, it’s the government, right?
Sofiya: Yeah, it’s the government. Nobody lives in there, so it now belongs to the state.
Guy: Yeah, so buy it from the state, then.
Sofiya: Yeah.
Guy: The state just gets the money for the sale of the property.
Sofiya: Yeah, I think so. I think that how it works. But I don’t want to lie on that, because I’m not really sure-
Guy: Or they just give it?
Sofiya: Yes. Well, there are instances of both happen.
Vic: And how were your parents able to meet David?
Sofiya: So <laughs> we basically dragged them out of there. We bought them- it was the whole process. I’ve been researching the best route for them for months, and we were finally able to put them on a train. My brother, my little brother, he drove them to the train station, made sure they got on the train. The train took them directly to the airport. So at the airport, they were met by the airport workers and brought to the gate, because my mom is disabled. She actually refused to sit in a disabled chair, in a wheelchair! She said, “No. I can walk. All the way, to the gate, on my two feet”.
Guy: Fuck off!
Sofiya: Yeah, exactly. And then they got on the plane, and we met them at the airport, where she also- in Armenia. She also refused to get in the wheelchair in Armenia <laughs>. So she walked with a walking stick. And I’m like, “Mom, but, maybe you should have just used that?” She’s like, “What am I, handicapped?” <laughs> Yes, you are a mom. She’s like, “I’m not disabled! I’m a strong and independent woman!”
Guy: Yup! Sounds like, sounds like a Ukrainian.
David: So we took them aaaaaall over Armenia for two weeks straight.
Sofiya: Yeah, rented a car.
David: Rented a car, had a nice little apartment for them. That was the first vacation or time that they left Crimea in probably…
Sofiya: 30 years. That was my mom’s first vacation in her entire life. She’s only ever been to Austria for 2 or 3 days when my dad had a business meeting there and she just followed along. She’s never been to any other countries because she became disabled when she was 23.
Guy: Oh, shit.
Sofiya: Yeah.
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